blue max

HP Microservers above 6.2

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Hi all and just looking for some clarification on how best to proceed please.

 

I have N54L's (stock) and a Gen 8 (xeon E3 1265L v2). All running 6.2 update 2 with 1.03b and DS3617XS successfully.

 

I realise that this is the end of the road unless I add a PCIE network card using Intel chipset and ordered an HP NC360T (dual gig), which came today.

 

I have installed it in an N54L and it works perfectly. I'm able to log into DSM via the original on-board and have changed the network setting on the NC360T to suit my network and am also able to login to DSM via that.

 

So, my next step is to attempt to move to the current version.

 

I"m guessing I can't just update via DSM? 

 

DSM seems to insist I use the on-board lan port first, no matter what I change (even now it is called port 3), so I assume my only choice is to disable it via the bootloader.

 

Interestingly, one of the ports on the new card shows the same mac address as the on-board one. I guess I'll have to figure out what it actually is?

 

So, disable the on-board nic, create a new usb stick with the amended mac address, and load 6.2.1 and apply all the updates via DSM?

 

Is this a plan or are there any gotcha's?

 

Thanks for any advice before I bite the bullet. It's a backup machine, so not the end of the world if it goes pear-shaped.

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I'm also curious about the future of this platform now. I've got a Gen8 with the stock G1610T Celeron CPU in it (it does what I need it to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) running 6.2 U2, also, and it would be great if it was possible for Jun or QuickNick to produce a bootloader for 6.2.1 and this hardware.

 

Failing that, it seems my other option is to backup all my data (9TB!!!), rebuild the server as an ESXi host, and go virtual...

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Well, adding an Intel nic is only about £10-15, so a worthwhile investment if it prolongs the lifespan. But I'm hoping this will be the case. We need to hear the pros and cons of course from someone who has actually done it and has a better overview of the situation.

 

The beauty of the microservers, was that there were many of them in the field and it wasn't too difficult to find someone else who had the same setup. Therefore not too much of a risk updating.

 

If people just stick at 6.2, it will be more risky in future. Though I've been burnt chasing the latest and greatest before! Only just upgraded from 5.2 after that experience!

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Ah, I was under the impression it was a CPU architecture incompatibility, rather than just a NIC driver thing. Does the 1.04b loader simply lack the drivers for the Broadcom NIC in the HP servers, then?

 

(I only just updated to 6.2 from 6.1.7 yesterday, so am playing catch up here)

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, WiteWulf said:

Ah, I was under the impression it was a CPU architecture incompatibility, rather than just a NIC driver thing. Does the 1.04b loader simply lack the drivers for the Broadcom NIC in the HP servers, then?

 

(I only just updated to 6.2 from 6.1.7 yesterday, so am playing catch up here)

 

Well, it is clear the new bootloader 1.04b (I think) which is based on the 918+, uses newer cpu's than are on the microservers (even the xeon).

 

But I understood the only thing holding back an update to 6.2.1 for us using 1.03b/DS36xxSX, was the requirement for an Intel based NIC. I believe that's correct anyway.

Edited by blue max
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Ah, okay, I thought the 1.04b loader and 6.2.1 were inextricably linked. Having re-read Jun's post on the topic now, I see that all non-Synology provided PCIe drivers have stopped working in 6.2.1, so you basically need a NIC with the same chipset as a "real" Synology box.

 

Lol, this is reminding me of when I used to have a Hackintosh and went searching for cheap Dell wireless cards with the same drivers as Apple gear 🤣

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No, but I think 1.04b loader and 918+ are linked.

 

This is what I based my understanding on:

This is an INTERMEDIATE update of DSM.

BE CAUTIOUS WHEN UPDATING TO DSM 6.2.1 with Jun's loader 1.03a2 or  1.03b or earlier.

You may brick your box because of a change in the kernel config that breaks all non official PCIe devices drivers. This has been confirmed by Jun.

 

So, upgrading the network card may be all that is required (for now!).

 

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On 12/24/2018 at 7:15 PM, nelss said:

- Outcome of the installation/update: UNSUCCESSFUL

- DSM version prior update: DSM 6.2-23739 Update 2

- Loader version and model: JUN'S LOADER v1.03b - DS3617xs

- Using custom extra.lzma: NO

- Installation type: Baremetal - HP Microserver GEN 8

- Additional comments: with internal nic and hP NC360T

 

On 10/14/2018 at 4:12 PM, Yesluv said:

- Outcome of the installation/update: SUCCESSFUL

- DSM version prior update: DSM 6.2-23739 Update 2

- Loader version and model: JUN'S LOADER v1.03b - DS3615xs

- Using custom extra.lzma: NO

- Installation type: BAREMETAL - HP Microserver GEN 8 

- Additional comments: On-board NIC no longer works after this update. Had to throw in a 4-port PCIe NIC (Intel Corporation I350 Gigabit Network Connection) 

 

Conflicting results. I'm not sure if it's the NIC. Maybe nelss didn't disable the on-board nic? 

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DS918 has direct support for much fewer devices than DS3615.  For example, there are over 200 distinct Intel NIC types supported by DSM DS3615 under 6.1.7.

 

On DS918 6.2.1, that number is 135.  And it isn't just the older boards that are missing, in some cases Synology regressed to an older driver package and dropped support for new NICs they were not going to use in their platform.

 

What's worse is that Intel releases multiple cards (multiple PCI device ID's) under a single nomenclature so you can have two of the "same" cards, and one works and the other doesn't.

 

I've posted before on this, 6.1.7 on DS3615 is a "sweet spot" for the system right now - at least until extra.lzma is available for DS918 on 6.2.1.

 

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Posted (edited)

Here the Outcome of some experimental work from today:

 

- Outcome of the installation/update: UNSUCCESSFUL

- DSM version prior update: DSM 6.2-23739 Update 2

- Loader version and model: JUN'S LOADER v1.03b - DS3617xs

- Using custom extra.lzma: NO

- Installation type: Baremetal - HP Microserver Gen10

- Additional comments: Manual Installation via DSM 6.2.1-23824 - No IP from DHCP after Update, no Ping

 

- Outcome of the installation/update: UNSUCCESSFUL

- DSM version prior update: DSM 6.2-23739 Update 2

- Loader version and model: JUN'S LOADER v1.03b - DS3617xs

- Using custom extra.lzma: NO

- Installation type: Baremetal - HP Microserver Gen10 / Intel 1000 CT Desktop Adapter / Deactivated internal NIC's

- Additional comments: Manual Installation via DSM 6.2.1-23824 - No IP from DHCP after Update, also no Connection with manual IP Settings

 

- Outcome of the installation/update: UNSUCCESSFUL

- DSM version prior update: DSM 6.2-23739 Update 2

- Loader version and model: JUN'S LOADER v1.04b - DS918+

- Using custom extra.lzma: NO

- Installation type: Baremetal - HP Microserver Gen10 / Intel 1000 CT Desktop Adapter / Deactivated internal NIC's

- Additional comments: Manual Installation via Synology Assistant 6.2.1-23824 fails with Error 13

 

So, my verdict: Gen10 works perfectly with 6.2-23739, but don't go beyond this point, even with an Intel 1000 CT NIC. 

Edited by hoidoi
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4 hours ago, hoidoi said:

So, my verdict: Gen10 works perfectly with 6.2-23739, but don't go beyond this point, even with an Intel 1000 CT NIC. 

 

You need the "right" NIC.  Here are the device ID's of the Intel NICs that are presently supported on DS918 6.2.1:

image.png.06273b0055dc40291e406616ba39a755.png

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2 minutes ago, flyride said:

 

You need the "right" NIC.  Here are the device ID's of the Intel NICs that are presently supported on DS918 6.2.1:

image.png.06273b0055dc40291e406616ba39a755.png

I gonna Check this tomorrow. Thank a lot!

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10 hours ago, flyride said:

 

You need the "right" NIC.  Here are the device ID's of the Intel NICs that are presently supported on DS918 6.2.1:

image.png.06273b0055dc40291e406616ba39a755.png

 

At the risk of sounding stupid, what do those numbers refer to please? And how to find a device ID? Is it a PC thing (I'm on a mac) perhaps?

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Each hardware manufacturer registers PCI device type before a device is made available for sale.  It's how the drivers can identify the hardware with which they are supposed to work.  So a driver essentially has a list of the hardware ID's it can work with.  The above is an extract of that information from the drivers Synology included in DSM 6.2.1 for DS918.

 

You can see devID's within Synology or Linux by using lspci.  I'm not sure what the MacOS command would be to do the same, but I am sure there is an equivalent command.

 

What I'm suggesting to @hoidoi is to verify the Intel 1000 CT NIC devID and see if it is on the above list.  If it isn't, then it's evidence that the card is "too new" and isn't supported by the driver that we currently have to use for XPEnology.  Furthermore, we may be able to identify a chip type and therefore a compliant NIC on that list, and acquire one of those, which ought to work.

Edited by flyride
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Appreciate the answer Flyride. Can you point me to where I would find the info within Synology please? Or is it not when running baremetal?

 

 

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20 hours ago, blue max said:

 

Interestingly, one of the ports on the new card shows the same mac address as the on-board one. I guess I'll have to figure out what it actually is?

 

Did you edit your grub.cfg to reflect the changes made by adding the new card?

MAC1 = eth0 in DSM.

When you add a new nic, it will become eth0, pushing the builtin "up" and inherit MAC1 from grub.cfg (that might be in use on the builtin nic)

I noticed this self, by having 2 nics, using the same MAC and claiming the same IP from my router.

Edited by bearcat
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3 minutes ago, bearcat said:

 

Did you edit your grub.cfg to reflect the changes made by adding the new card?

MAC1 = eth0 = LAN1 in DSM.

When you add a new nic, it will become eth0, pushing the builtin "up" and inherit MAC1 from grub.cfg (that might be in use on the builtin nic)

I noticed this self, by having 2 nics, using the same MAC and claiming the same IP from my router.

 

Well, in DSM it showed as 1, 2 & 3. But I have disabled the on-board NIC to stop it trying to use it. And bonded my two ports as one. 

 

I threw a blank disk into my 6.2 U2 setup and then booted up from that to make a clean 6.2 U2 setup. That worked fine, but when I updated to 6.2.1, it didn't even try to read the disk. I put my old usb stick in and  it booted as 6.2, so it obviously writes something to the usb stick. I'm going to try to update with the stick removed and see if that helps the situation. But it's not looking promising unfortunately.

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Thanks for all the additional info @flyride, it's really appreciated. I've got a stack of Intel PCIe cards in the office that I may have a look through to see if I can find anything matching those PCI device IDs.

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@flyride with a microserver gen8 with esxi what is your sugestion to "prevent" network related issues with xpenology? Buy a new network card and passtrought it to the vm?

 

Not that i pretend go that road... because i already have my pcie fill with a raid controller, but in esxi using e1000e the network speed is very poor when compared with vmxnet3

 

Thanks

Edited by codedmind

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On 1/9/2019 at 3:28 PM, blue max said:

 

 

Conflicting results. I'm not sure if it's the NIC. Maybe nelss didn't disable the on-board nic? 

 Hi,

 

i disable internal nic on the bios.

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5 minutes ago, nelss said:

 Hi,

 

i disable internal nic on the bios.

 

OK, then I wonder if it is the DS3615xs being more compatible?

I'm using that network card and not having any luck either on a gen7. And haven't been able to install the 3615 either. 

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24 minutes ago, blue max said:

 

OK, then I wonder if it is the DS3615xs being more compatible?

I'm using that network card and not having any luck either on a gen7. And haven't been able to install the 3615 either.  

on gen 8 with internal nic for now only 6.2.23739 upt2 work 3615 or 3617, hp 360 with intel nic don't solve problem.

 

if you need to install last dsm with last update you need virtual installation on exsi

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1 hour ago, codedmind said:

@flyride with a microserver gen8 with esxi what is your sugestion to "prevent" network related issues with xpenology? Buy a new network card and passtrought it to the vm?

Not that i pretend go that road... because i already have my pcie fill with a raid controller, but in esxi using e1000e the network speed is very poor when compared with vmxnet3

 

Thanks

 

I am running an XPEnology instance on ESXi right now with 1.04b DS918 and it works with vmxnet3

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2 minutes ago, flyride said:

 

I am running an XPEnology instance on ESXi right now with 1.04b DS918 and it works with vmxnet3

Well that is good news... do you have done something special to have it run in esxi? or only add a second sata controller?

Can you provide an ova?

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Nothing special.

 

Haswell or later processor is required in order to run DS918.  VM standard install, add 2nd SATA to connect vdisks or RDM devices, or alternatively passthrough a controller

 

On my test instance, I need DiskIdxMap=0C00 to hide the boot loader and get the SATA vdisks to show up in the right place.

 

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