JoseManuel7199 Posted December 25, 2022 Share #1551 Posted December 25, 2022 Hi, i make a xpenology with arpl, but when i give it boot loader, i can't find my server Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaanx Posted December 25, 2022 Share #1552 Posted December 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, JoseManuel7199 said: Hi, i make a xpenology with arpl, but when i give it boot loader, i can't find my server My post below probably wasn't very clear to for who it was, but you can use it too, to help you figure out wat the issue might be. @Derex and @royeiror this was for you I guess... On 12/22/2022 at 2:29 PM, idaanx said: Could you guys post a list of PCI devices? Start the ARPL configurator. Use ssh to get into the device and type 'lspci -nnk' (without quotes) and copy the output. Or with a monitor and keyboard connected to the device type 'lspci -nnk > /mnt/p1/lspci.txt' (without qoutes), then type 'poweroff' and unplug the flash drive when it's off. Plug in the flash into your main computer and your should see the lspci.txt file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseManuel7199 Posted December 25, 2022 Share #1553 Posted December 25, 2022 10 minutes ago, idaanx said: My post below probably wasn't very clear to for who it was, but you can use it too, to help you figure out wat the issue might be. @Derex and @royeiror this was for you I guess... I get many things, but it says that intel xeon e5 v2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaanx Posted December 25, 2022 Share #1554 Posted December 25, 2022 @JoseManuel7199 please read the full post, and post your full output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altaram Posted December 28, 2022 Share #1555 Posted December 28, 2022 News with my build. I have upgraded the CPU to an Intel Xeon E3-1265L v3. The results with ARPL DS3622xs+ were very bad, as with the previous CPU. I switched to ARPL DS3617xs and couldn't even get access via IP. I switched to the DS3615xs and the results were about 40% better, but still far from where I should be. Finally I did a migration with TCRP 0.9 DS920+ and magic happened. The result is perfect, even better than expected. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19560150 The next test seems obvious, try ARPL DS920+ and compare. Well, that's what I did and, surprise, again we weighed in on the results. The conclusion in my case seems clear, ARPL has some kind of performance problem in some of its builds with certain hardware. I think it should be revised for future updates because this performance difference is very noticeable. With TCRP I notice the system much more agile, as it should be with the hardware I have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 28, 2022 Share #1556 Posted December 28, 2022 How i test my server with this geekbench ? Do you have used docker ? ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindspot Posted December 28, 2022 Share #1557 Posted December 28, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 5:46 PM, idaanx said: One way is using Docker, but I run it mostly just straight from ssh, download, unzip and starting the benchmark with: wget https://cdn.geekbench.com/Geekbench-5.4.6-Linux.tar.gz && tar xf Geekbench-5.4.6-Linux.tar.gz && ./Geekbench-5.4.6-Linux/geekbench5 ssh to dsm box and run 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbooter Posted December 28, 2022 Share #1558 Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) Worked great on HP g3 800 sff baremetal with 918+ 1)What is the procedure with the pat files. Does aprl do this for us now or do we have to download base OS and or update file 300 meg vs 34 meg? and use synology assistant to install 2)do we still forego all automatic updates in the setup screens as updates will bork the system? Edited December 28, 2022 by dasbooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbap Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1559 Posted December 29, 2022 7 hours ago, Altaram said: News with my build. I have upgraded the CPU to an Intel Xeon E3-1265L v3. Thanks for the info. I decided to run tests on my 2 systems (running old ARPL): HP Microserver Gen8, Intel Xeon E3-1265L v2, ARPL v0.4alpha4. Geekbench score is above average for the CPU, so good on this one - https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19568279 Supermicro MiniServer X10SDV-TLN4F, Intel Xeon D-1541, ARPL v0.4alpha6. Geekbench score is about 25% of the average, so really bad (and this is my main server that runs windows VMs - and it feels really slow). https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19568321 I'm now going to try latest ARPL on the Supermicro and see what happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1560 Posted December 29, 2022 also runnung some test thank you for the hint i will post the results 9 hours ago, nemesis122 said: How i test my server with this geekbench ? Do you have used docker ? ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1561 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) tested with arpl 1.03 because all other versions not correct running and can confirm the same i will further test with tinycore and final with DSM 6 1.03b 3617 and the fastest is the oldest kernel maybe this is the case ? System HP Gen8 Microserver I3 3240 CPU 16GB RAM 1TB SSD Volume1 4x6TB Raid 0 Volume2 ARPL 3622 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19571457 Linux 4.4.180+ x86_64 348 Single-Core Score 806 Multi-Core Score ARPL 3615 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19571741 Linux 3.10.108 x86_64 719 Single-Core Score 1609 Multi-Core Score ARPL 920 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19572036 Linux 4.4.180+ x86_64 351 Single-Core Score 800 Multi-Core Score ARPL 3617 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19572279 Linux 4.4.180+ x86_64 348 Single-Core Score 801 Multi-Core Score Edited December 29, 2022 by nemesis122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1562 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) and final i can confirm the same sometimes install is fine but after reboot kernel panic with my gen8 and only arpl 1.03b is the best loader no issue and the same issue is also with arc loader which is based on Arpl On 12/16/2022 at 7:21 PM, vasiliy_gr said: New investigation. Sorry - without pictures. Lets start with history. I installed beta3 (previously was tcrp). No problems except hibernation. And on beta3 I can't force my hdd-s hibernate at all. So later I installed from internal arpl upgrade menu version beta6. There were some issues with kernel panic, but they could be solved by DSM reboot. Soon I got beta7, so I don't know much on beta6. I installed beta7 from beta6 (that was installed from beta3) internally through menu. And all above I did on four NAS-es wih very similar characteristics. All of them have Proxmox, 12th generation of Intel CPU-s and Z690 m/b-s from Asus with 64 or 128 GB of RAM (minus something for Proxmox), disabled SATA controller, 9300 or 9400 SAS HBA instead. Also all of them are DS3622xs+ with the latest DSM. And historicaly they had finally beta7. The new part is only about one NAS. At first I tried to install new versions internally. After bad results with upgrade procedure, I downloaded images from github, made some settings and tried DSM. My settings: 9p, lsutil - in Addon menu, SataPortMap=18 and DiskIdxMap=1B00 in Cmdline menu. And of course previously - DS3622xs+, latest/upper DSM, random SN. Then - build loader - boot. beta3 - no problems at all. But no hibernation at all. beta4 - no network, only localhost available. beta5 - no "Boot" item in menu.sh after building DSM kernel. So I did exit and reboot manually. I saw grub menu but it refused to boot beyond red lines. So no DSM here too. beta6 - it was the second best result after beta3... It loaded DSM as restore session. I did restore. It rebooted. And - kernel panic... beta7 - kernel panic. beta8 - kernel panic. beta9 - kernel panic. To some up: the last working loader in my configuration is beta3. All loaders above produce unbootable DSM. There may be some way to produce good ARPL above beta3 - using upgrade menu. For example, I managed to do upgade from beta3 to beta6 and later to beta7. But i can't reproduce it, as upgrade menu only upgrades to latest version. And beta8/beta9 produce kernel panic after upgade from beta3 and beta6. So now I have beta3 on only one NAS where I can study hibernate problem (as I have SAS hdd-s there with inverted led logic). And I have beta7 on other NAS-es - but I can't reproduce the way I got this version. Edited December 29, 2022 by nemesis122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apriliars3 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1563 Posted December 29, 2022 Is there any usb ethernet adapter that works with DSM and arpl or redpill? I hsve one pc with issue lan and need other pci ethernet or usb ethernet. Thanks. UGREEN adaptador Ethernet USB C tipo C a Ethernet para MacBook Pro, Samsung S20, S10, S9, Note10, tarjeta de red tipo C, USB C, Ethernet, RJ45|Tarjetas de red| - AliExpress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altaram Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1564 Posted December 29, 2022 12 hours ago, vbap said: Thanks for the info. I decided to run tests on my 2 systems (running old ARPL): HP Microserver Gen8, Intel Xeon E3-1265L v2, ARPL v0.4alpha4. Geekbench score is above average for the CPU, so good on this one - https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19568279 Supermicro MiniServer X10SDV-TLN4F, Intel Xeon D-1541, ARPL v0.4alpha6. Geekbench score is about 25% of the average, so really bad (and this is my main server that runs windows VMs - and it feels really slow). https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19568321 I'm now going to try latest ARPL on the Supermicro and see what happens. There is definitely a huge inconsistency with different hardware versions using ARPL. The results you get with your server with the Xeon D-1541 are very bad while the ones you get with the G8 are in adequate performance. Try with another version of ARPL (I did all my tests with the latest one) and with TinyCore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1565 Posted December 29, 2022 hi 3615 is running great but there is a little cosmetic also after cpu info do you know how to fix that ? ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1566 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) @all Do you think this performance issue is only related to ARPL or also to Tinycore ? i have to test after work. thank you Edited December 29, 2022 by nemesis122 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1567 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) with arpl version 1.03b this is a xeon 1246v2 cpu 3622 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19577271 221 Single-Core Score 964 Multi-Core Score with arpl 1.03b 3615 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19578614 1040 Single-Core Score 3899 Multi-Core Score this is a huge different in VMM with virtual Maschines Edited December 29, 2022 by nemesis122 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1568 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) Also tested this in Virtualbox with Intel 9700 same settings for the virtualmaschines 4 cores 4096MB RAM 3615+3622 arpl and tinycore there is no differenz. ty on HW what causes this performance issue is this Kernel releated or realy the loader ? Edited December 29, 2022 by nemesis122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaanx Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1569 Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) Sorry to keep you all waiting, I was away from the computer for a few days. I have done a lot of test on this in the last few weeks, pretty sure I know what is going on. Let me try to explain what is happening... The issue The simple answer is that the system is stuck in either a low performance mode (to save energy), this is the case with ARPL. The opposite is true for TCRP, in which it is stuck in a higher frequency mode. The core of the issue lies in an add-on called misc. This add-on performs a couple of checks about the CPU the disable certain kernel features, to prevent a crash if not available. One of them is checking for the ability of the CPU to perform performance scaling. In other words it's checking for what Intel calls SpeedStep, don't know what the AMD calls this feature. The performed check doesn't work like intended and is flawed in my opinion. It checks for features in a device directory, which don't exist at that point yet. The result of this is that the kernel module called acpi-cpufreq is not loaded. Once loaded the directory is populated. This issue was previously reported, I guess the consequence wasn't realised. This acpi-cpufreq module manages performance scaling with a governor, there is more than 1 but the default governor on the models I've tested is called performance. When there is no load the governor scales the CPU down to save energy, and scales up again when there is a need for it. All models that include the misc add-on are effected by this missing module, even the 3615xs. Although it loads the acpi-cpufreq through another kernel module called mperf, this results in a normal experience. It might be possible that different models use different governors, but once the real issue is fixed it loads the preferred governor anyway. Loader differences Why is there a difference between the loaders? I'm not 100% sure about this, but I have a very plausible idea. Since the DSM system, doesn't start by itself on anything but Synology's hardware, we need a loader to perform a couple of steps, before it turns over to DSM. These loaders, ARPL, TCRP or Jun are by them selfs systems with its own kernel. This means the loader manages this performance scaling and then turns it over to DSM. The difference in performance between ARPL and TCRP might be the result of this. The ARPL loader sets the performance scaling into the userspace governor, with the minimum frequency, once in DSM and unable to scale it up because of the missing kernel module, the result is the low performance. I've force ARPL into a higher frequency and loaded DSM and the result was the higher stuck frequency in DSM. TCRP starts with a different governor and seems ok, but also has the missing kernel and the result is it doesn't scale down. When using TCRP withfriend it has the same low performance as ARPL, which proves this even more. On a real Synology or even perfectly working XPEnology NAS it might seem it not scaling, but it definitely is. You just need to look in the right place. Fixing the issue It's not very hard to fix this issue. There a several ways of doing this, the best way is to put in place better checks in the misc add-on so everyone benefits. I have a couple of ideas for this but I need @pocopico and @fbelavenuto to give me a better idea why it was implemented. Right now I think it's really just needed on hypervisors, where I replicated the issue with a crash. Since the host of the VM manages the CPU, there is no performance scaling inside the VM and all modern CPUs should be able to do so when running bare metal. Temporary fix Right now I would suggest to go with a temporary fix (for advanced users only), which needs to be re-applied once restarted. This has the benefits of getting things up again, might there be a crash on your system, which this check in misc is trying to prevent. This needs to be run in the shell as root, if you don't know how to do this, I don't think this is for you right now. I have done my testing on an isolated drive, with ARPL but TCRP should work too. If you do this make sure you have an idea what you are doing, there is always a risk of losing data if something goes wrong. modprobe acpi-cpufreq && echo "performance" | tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor The modprobe loads the kernel module and on success it forces all the governor into performance mode. Once loaded you can check if you get an output. grep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/* Hope you guys find this helpful, and appreciate the work I have done. Aswell as what the people working on these loaders do, mistakes happen, please don't blame anyone. Edited December 29, 2022 by idaanx 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaanx Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1570 Posted December 29, 2022 Forgot to add some things. I've tested this on 2 systems, my main board used as a NAS with the N3150. The other test system was a small Dell with a i3-6100T. Although I can verify the kernel module isn't loaded on both, the i3-6100T also works without it. I'm not sure why that is, might be the BIOS is handeling the scaling all the time or certain newer chips have this build-in. Even forcing a frequency scale doesn't have an effect and it's always just bouncing around the spectrum. Another fix I just remembered Turning off SpeedStep in combination with C-state C7 (the exact state might depend on your motherboard), should give you at least the base frequency of your CPU since it's not able to scale down. This is something I've found sometime ago, but wasn't good enough for me. This is also more of a temporary fix, again a stuck frequency and more power draw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idaanx Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1571 Posted December 29, 2022 8 hours ago, apriliars3 said: Is there any usb ethernet adapter that works with DSM and arpl or redpill? I hsve one pc with issue lan and need other pci ethernet or usb ethernet. Thanks. UGREEN adaptador Ethernet USB C tipo C a Ethernet para MacBook Pro, Samsung S20, S10, S9, Note10, tarjeta de red tipo C, USB C, Ethernet, RJ45|Tarjetas de red| - AliExpress If you have a free PCI slot I would suggest some Intel NIC that uses the e1000e driver like the Intel Gigabit CT Adapter. Can be found on eBay, Amazon, Aliexpress and others. Got mine for around €15 a few years ago. These USB NICs may work but probably use some kind of shitty Realtek chip, turned my build-in Realtek off because of the issues it gave me. What kind of NIC do you have now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbap Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1572 Posted December 29, 2022 8 hours ago, nemesis122 said: Do you think this performance issue is only related to ARPL or also to Tinycore ? I think @idaanx testing is sufficiently comprehensive... hopefully loader devs can address in the new year. For my own testing, on my supermicro server, I could not get latest ARPL (1.0b9) or Tinycore (0.9.3) to work. With ARPL, my NICs would disappear from the router after DSM booted, and DSM not reachable. Tinycore, NICs would show in router with correct IPs but again DSM not reachable (not even ssh). ARPL 1.03b worked fine, but suffers from performance issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbap Posted December 29, 2022 Share #1573 Posted December 29, 2022 3 hours ago, idaanx said: If you do this make sure you have an idea what you are doing, there is always a risk of losing data if something goes wrong. modprobe acpi-cpufreq && echo "performance" | tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor I am game, and went ahead with this on my Supermicro server, running ARPL 1.0b3 bare metal. And, well, my geekbench multicore score has been tripled (https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19587925) - still a bit below average, but already my VMM performance is much much better. I executed the above after shutting down my VMs in VMM, but DSM was still running. Ran geekbench, then started up my VM again from DSM. Thanks @idaanx @pocopico @fbelavenuto - hope you all enjoy the the festive season 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis122 Posted December 30, 2022 Share #1574 Posted December 30, 2022 (edited) Intel Core i3-3240 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19583809 With Tinycore Mshell with friend 3622xs 350 Single-Core Score 787 Multi-Core Score Intel Core i3-3240 https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19571457 with ARPL 3622xs 348 Single-Core Score 806 Multi-Core Score Intel Core i3-3240 ARPL JUN MOD 3615xs https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/19585067 717 Single-Core Score 1609 Multi-Core Score Hi Thank you all for your answer i can confirm 3622xs with ARPL 1.03 and TCRP with friend there is the same performance lost. But with 3615 ARPL 1.03 is doubling the performance there is a comsmetic issue under Info CPU clock rate CPU it shows 800MHZ with a Xeon 1246v2 also after CPU Info is can i change this manuall? @idaanxthank you very much or for your analyse . I have checked what is inside in this Loader 3615 which has the double performance and also this redpill-misc addon is inside...? Happy New Year @ all Edited December 30, 2022 by nemesis122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apriliars3 Posted December 30, 2022 Share #1575 Posted December 30, 2022 10 hours ago, idaanx said: If you have a free PCI slot I would suggest some Intel NIC that uses the e1000e driver like the Intel Gigabit CT Adapter. Can be found on eBay, Amazon, Aliexpress and others. Got mine for around €15 a few years ago. These USB NICs may work but probably use some kind of shitty Realtek chip, turned my build-in Realtek off because of the issues it gave me. What kind of NIC do you have now? I can buy this nic ethernet. Is it compatible? I think so. Intel PRO1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter Product Specifications Is for a old pc socket 775 that freeze with actual nic, but if disabled internal nic and use only wifi, I test it that no freeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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