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roysv

Bare metal Xpenology vs vmware

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Hi,

 

I'm planning to update my Xpenology server from 5.2 to 6.x and wonder if I should rebuild everything from Xpenology on bare metal to Xpenology in a vmware virtual setup.

 

Today I run Pfsense, openhab, plex in XPenology I got 5 Network cards, but if I want to use a network card in PFsense since this is running in virtual box I get a conflict with Xpenology since I need to add this network card to Synology first before I add it to virtualbox. I try not to do to much manual coding in Synology since it mean a lot to think about when upgrading versions.

 

My major is to be able to run a steady Synology and Firewall hopefully also OpenHab, but not sure if I should swap over to vmware as the bottom layer.

 

I also run other virtual maskins, It also seems hard to add new network cards and subnets without Synology is there to see and control.

 

When running plex on Synology with several subnets it looks like plex takes the last subnet added to synology an believe that this is the default network.

 

my HW is:

 

HDD: 3 x Seagate NAS 3TB, 1 x 79 GB

Mem: 4 x Crucial DDR3 BallistiX Sport 8GB

MB: ASUS A88XM-PLUS, Socket-FM2+

Pros.: AMD A8-7600, Socket-FM2+

 

Any recommendations/experiences on using VMWare as bottom layer on my server instead of XPEnology?

 

Regards

 

RS

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Are you referring to running Xpenology on top of a virtualisation layer for production? As that would be an incredibly dumb idea from many perspectives.

 

If you're instead asking about replacing Xpenology with VMware then I'd say it's a good idea if you do an ample amount of virtualisation. Personally I'd host my datastore on a FreeNAS or Synology for the performance and backup features they offer.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited by Guest

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Yes, I was thinking about virtualize XPEnology into VMWare side by side with Firewall.

Since I think that would be a better solution rather than having the Firewall Virtualized in XPEnology with the network cards (nics) conflict it makes.

 

of course having a small computer or FW box extra would be a solution, but then it starts growing with boxes again.

 

Question: Will DSM 6 be able to lock nic into virtualized server or do I still needed to add it into DSM 6 with full IP setup?

 

 

 

My production is for home environment so the critical here are the backups of my private data.

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in theory dsm 6.1 is offering already exactly what you need, it does support virtual machines with a new package

https://www.synology.com/en-us/beta/2017_VMM

as far as i understand it thats exactly what was used befor for "virtual DSM" (a virtual DSM inside a hardware Synology DSM) but now it's open for all kinds of VM's, inside the package is libvirt and qemu (+kvm)

 

there seem to be a lot of people using esx server for virtualising xpenology

one of the main problems is the acess to controller/disks, if you system supports vt-d then you can hand over the storage controller to the xpenology vm and dsm/xpenology will see the disk and can use smart ans so on, completly like e real xpenology, but esy server will not be able to see or use any of the disks so the hdd space for other vm's need to com from different controller und disks or from virtual disks over nfs from the xpenology vm server (nfs) so you need extra disks or you firewall depends on the runnig of xpenology (providing diskspace by nfs), lots of dependecys and esx is still a addition you will have to handle and update (nothing against esx server, its great in professnial enviroment but not so good for the unexperianced)

the other way might be provide rdm (raw disk mapping) devices from esx to the xpenology vm, in that scenario the esx controlls the storage controller, so xpenology does not see the real disks and will not be able so use smart. temperature or anyting - i would not do that

 

i would suggest you set up dsm 6.1 as test with virtualbox an you desktop (howto is here in the forum), try out the new virtualization spk inside with your firewall and check that the hardware is running with dsm 6,1 und jun 1.0.2a/a2 (i still prefer 1.0.2a with 3615xs) - 2nd is best to test with a usb stick loaded with jun's bootloader, un plugging all disks (old dsm) and old usb stick (5.2 loader), using one empty disk as destination und usb stick with jun 1.0.2 for test install of 6.1 (is all hardware like nic, storage controller(s), ... working)

after testing just replace the usb stick and reconnect your disks and no harm done to you running system

 

if you decide for dsm 6.1 think about using btrfs, bau as there ist no conversion a complete offload is needed

imho there is no good way of upgrading, as the 6.1.1 (the actual 6.1 that gets updates) only runs if cleanly installed, so it might be good to boot a live linux and remove all partitions from all disks (alternative is to assamble the system drive with mdadm and format it as ext4, the ext4 volume(s) with data can be left, after installing dsm 6.1 they will be interated and can be deleted from inside dsm to recreate the space as btrfs volume)

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Thanks TG-88 for your insight. I'll try out as you say first and see if it meets my needs if it does I'll run a full scale test on my hardware to see if jun's loader handle it before I do upgrade.(anyway I need to make a full backup of the old server before upgrade not only important data :wink:

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Are you referring to running Xpenology on top of a virtualisation layer for production? As that would be an incredibly dumb idea from many perspectives.

 

If you're instead asking about replacing Xpenology with VMware then I'd say it's a good idea if you do an ample amount of virtualisation. Personally I'd host my datastore on a FreeNAS or Xpenology for the performance and backup features they offer.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I believe he is asking about running Xpenology in an ESXi VM vs bare metal.

One would be insane to use the built in virtualization built into Xpenology vs VMware or other well developed methods, unless it's, just to try it.

Who would use Xpenology for production? I would fire you for even suggesting that!

Now that said, I run Xpenology in an ESXi 6.0 VM, and it runs very well and I will not run it bare metal, but for my Sophos firewall I run it bare metal, save lots of problems when you play with servers and VM's. The only reason I use Xpenology is for hobby use and because of SHR. It makes the best use of old odd sized hard drives. For any other important storage I use ZFS, whether it is freenas, nas4free or omnios & napp-it.

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I believe he is asking about running Xpenology in an ESXi VM vs bare metal.

 

Yes

 

One would be insane to use the built in virtualization built into Xpenology vs VMware or other well developed methods, unless it's, just to try it.

Who would use Xpenology for production? I would fire you for even suggesting that!

 

I would never run XPenology in a Company setup ever for reasons not needed to write down, but for my home environment with backup of important data it's ok.

 

Now that said, I run Xpenology in an ESXi 6.0 VM, and it runs very well and I will not run it bare metal, but for my Sophos firewall I run it bare metal, save lots of problems when you play with servers and VM's. The only reason I use Xpenology is for hobby use and because of SHR. It makes the best use of old odd sized hard drives. For any other important storage I use ZFS, whether it is freenas, nas4free or omnios & napp-it.

 

Also for me this is just hobby and I'm trying to minimalize the amount of hardware I need at home. Today it works good with Xpenology 5.2 avd VirtualBox for FW (Pfsense), and other small test setup. The only problem is that I can't lock nics into virtualbox, means I need to set it up in Synology first and this creates some noise in the network.

Extra modules I use in Synology are OpenHab and PLex. For me the only reason for upgrade to 6.1 are that I can upgrade to newer versions of Openhab and Plex (64 bit).

 

Roy

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Are you referring to running Xpenology on top of a virtualisation layer for production? As that would be an incredibly dumb idea from many perspectives.

 

If you're instead asking about replacing Xpenology with VMware then I'd say it's a good idea if you do an ample amount of virtualisation. Personally I'd host my datastore on a FreeNAS or Xpenology for the performance and backup features they offer.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I believe he is asking about running Xpenology in an ESXi VM vs bare metal.

One would be insane to use the built in virtualization built into Xpenology vs VMware or other well developed methods, unless it's, just to try it.

Who would use Xpenology for production? I would fire you for even suggesting that!

Now that said, I run Xpenology in an ESXi 6.0 VM, and it runs very well and I will not run it bare metal, but for my Sophos firewall I run it bare metal, save lots of problems when you play with servers and VM's. The only reason I use Xpenology is for hobby use and because of SHR. It makes the best use of old odd sized hard drives. For any other important storage I use ZFS, whether it is freenas, nas4free or omnios & napp-it.

I never said I'd use Xpenology for production, I'd use FreeNAS personally.

 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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