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Develop and refine the DVA1622 loader


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1 час назад, Orphée сказал:

At least dva1622 does not need haswell as it works with gen8.
But is there any iGPU lower than aswell?
As no IA without iGPU on DVA1622... and must have >//hawsell for dva3221...
It seems there is a dead end here for IA and older CPU.

As far as I remember there was no igpu on xeons before haswell ( intel has released discrete gpus, but again drivers used in dva1622 are old and new gpus wont be recognized until drivers update, same thing as dva3221 with nvidia.

P.S found interesting info on how to emulate cpu instructions such as FMA3 in Windows VMs, maybe something is possible for linux

https://superuser.com/questions/1220451/can-any-vm-software-simulate-sse-4-2-on-a-machine-that-does-not-have-it

 

Add: Actually Intel® Software Development Emulator (Intel® SDE)

Does work on linux such as Ubuntu.

 

Also I found info that its possible to fully Emulate cpus with instructions in KVM QEMU

https://linux.gentoo.user.narkive.com/x2JIRl1c/gentoo-user-ot-can-qemu-emulate-cpu-instructions-the-host-cpu-doesn-t-have

Screenshot_2022-08-21-21-02-37-570_com.android.chrome.jpg

Edited by dimakv2014
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19 минут назад, scfrancis сказал:

My CPU is a Xeon(R) CPU E5-2420 with no GPU included...

Do you have experience with QEMU? I dont have spare pcs with unsupported cpus at the moment to check emulation and never used qemu. But if its possible to create vm with kvm+qemu and from there emulate haswell cpu on vm with redpill + gpu passthrough, I think its possible to run dva3221 with some loss of perfomance, but with nvidia gpu passthrough, at least its a theory, but could work.

Edited by dimakv2014
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il y a 32 minutes, dimakv2014 a dit :

Do you have experience with QEMU? I dont have spare pcs with unsupported cpus at the moment to check emulation and never used qemu. But if its possible to create vm with kvm+qemu and from there emulate haswell cpu on vm with redpill + gpu passthrough, I think its possible to run dva3221 with some loss of perfomance, but with nvidia gpu passthrough, at least its a theory, but could work.

I have some experience, I'll look at your links and see what I can do... But it seems complicated, even impossible...

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34 минуты назад, scfrancis сказал:

I have some experience, I'll look at your links and see what I can do... But it seems complicated, even impossible...

Complicated yes, but not impossible, or at least not yet possible ))

As far as I understand proxmox as esxi adresses directly to host cpu and all controllers in order to do full virtualization, gpu passthrough is possible but more complicated than esxi, but for now you can try without it, just to see if trick will work to run dva3221.

So I guess steps must be as follows:

1. Create VM in proxmox with Linux (Ubuntu or whatever can run qemu)

2. Install qemu/kvm on it

3. Create VM in qemu with tc-redpill with emulated cpu haswell or newer (https://manpages.debian.org/testing/qemu-system-common/qemu-cpu-models.7.en.html)

4. And test if dva3221 will boot.

Edited by dimakv2014
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I tried to force values in Proxmox VM configuration :

# qm set 104 --args "-cpu 'kvm64,+ssse3,+sse4.1,+sse4.2,+x2apic,+fma3'"
update VM 104: -args -cpu 'kvm64,+ssse3,+sse4.1,+sse4.2,+x2apic,+fma3'

 

It then does not start anymore.

 

Reverting back to qm set 104 --args "-cpu 'kvm64'"

 

It then starts again.

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6 часов назад, dimakv2014 сказал:

So in drivers there is a list of gpus, if gpu was not added there it won't be recognized.

that's what I also learned when I tried to Passthrough my onboard ASPEED Graphic chipset (ESXi VM) -> DVA haven't recognized it ;(

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5 минут назад, Orphée сказал:

I tried to force values in Proxmox VM configuration :

# qm set 104 --args "-cpu 'kvm64,+ssse3,+sse4.1,+sse4.2,+x2apic,+fma3'"
update VM 104: -args -cpu 'kvm64,+ssse3,+sse4.1,+sse4.2,+x2apic,+fma3'

 

It then does not start anymore.

 

Reverting back to qm set 104 --args "-cpu 'kvm64'"

 

It then starts again.

 

IMG_20220821_233223.jpg

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5 минут назад, asdbya сказал:

that's what I also learned when I tried to Passthrough my onboard ASPEED Graphic chipset (ESXi VM) -> DVA haven't recognized it ;(

Well it shouldnt, since it doesnt have drivers for it. Only Intel or Nvidia (dva3221)

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13 часа назад, Orphée сказал:

I tried to force values in Proxmox VM configuration :

# qm set 104 --args "-cpu 'kvm64,+ssse3,+sse4.1,+sse4.2,+x2apic,+fma3'"
update VM 104: -args -cpu 'kvm64,+ssse3,+sse4.1,+sse4.2,+x2apic,+fma3'

 

It then does not start anymore.

 

Reverting back to qm set 104 --args "-cpu 'kvm64'"

 

It then starts again.

You have sse4.2 flag which is not supported by kvm64, you can try remove unsupported flags and try to boot vm again. Also you could try setting it to "host" without extra flags and try to boot dva3221 again. Also did you try qemu64 instead of kvm64? And i think its possible emulate cpus on proxmox, no need ubuntu with qemu.

https://ahelpme.com/howto/qemu-full-virtualization-cpu-emulations-enable-disable-cpu-flags-instruction-sets/

Edited by dimakv2014
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16 hours ago, dimakv2014 said:

As far as I remember there was no igpu on xeons before haswell ( intel has released discrete gpus, but again drivers used in dva1622 are old and new gpus wont be recognized until drivers update, same thing as dva3221 with nvidia.

 

i have a E3-1265L on my Gen8 (Ivybridge) and it has an iGPU (HD2500) with quicksync, but on the Gen8 you cannot passthrough the iGPU anyway since it's disabled/not used (because of the Matrox).

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3 минуты назад, teslaweiler сказал:

Hello, 

 

I have Asrock j5005-itx dva1622 ,  There are way to remove  AI , Face Rec.. limitation  without addition Hardware ?

 

thanks you all .

 

More than 2 tasks? Check post #252 by Sandro_66 I believe he is found a trick to do that

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3 минуты назад, pigr8 сказал:

 

i have a E3-1265L on my Gen8 (Ivybridge) and it has an iGPU (HD2500) with quicksync, but on the Gen8 you cannot passthrough the iGPU anyway since it's disabled/not used (because of the Matrox).

Not sure what you mean, shouldn't it just passthrough pci-e intefrace like in vmware esxi?

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3 minutes ago, dimakv2014 said:

Not sure what you mean, shouldn't it just passthrough pci-e intefrace like in vmware esxi?

 

nope, not working, it's physically not wired/disabled even if the igpu is present on that cpu.. was an hp choice, you cannot even see it in esxi.

same cpu on B75 mainboard has the igpu exposed and passthough works.

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2 минуты назад, pigr8 сказал:

 

nope, not working, it's physically not wired/disabled even if the igpu is present on that cpu.. was an hp choice, you cannot even see it in esxi.

same cpu on B75 mainboard has the igpu exposed and passthough works.

Never tried it with built in motherboard gpu, always did it with discrete gpu, thats why using those old cpus must be combined with nvidia gpu and dva3221 is only choice for AI. But everyone seems to have problems with emulating haswell arch in proxmox, at least for now. If its possible to run dva3221 then its possible to passthrough gtx1650 gddr5 and have AI

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10 minutes ago, dimakv2014 said:

Never tried it with built in motherboard gpu, always did it with discrete gpu, thats why using those old cpus must be combined with nvidia gpu and dva3221 is only choice for AI. But everyone seems to have problems with emulating haswell arch in proxmox, at least for now. If its possible to run dva3221 then its possible to passthrough gtx1650 gddr5 and have AI

I think Proxmox is perfectly capable to emulate haswell as long as host CPU  is haswell supported CPU.

 

Look at DVA3221 thread, my tests with Proxmox were OK as long as the host has a compatible CPU.

So on my config dedicated for Dva3221,  currently running as baremetal,  it was perfectly working too with Proxmox and Nvidia GPU pass-through.

I'm quite sure it would work too with iGPU as long as Proxmox pass-through is correctly configured and host CPU haswell compatible.

To pass-through the Nvidia,  I had to experiment and fix grub/bios configuration to make it work.

 

Edit:  I tried "host"  CPU settings on the Gen8 and it failed too.

 

Even with Jun's loader running 6.x,  it was always stated that DS918+ will never work with CPU lower than Haswell. I think this is the same limitation for DVA3221.

Edited by Orphée
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5 минут назад, Orphée сказал:

I think Proxmox is perfectly capable to emulate haswell as long as host CPU  is haswell supported CPU.

 

Look at DVA3221 thread, my tests with Proxmox were OK as long as the host has a compatible CPU.

So on my config dedicated for Dva3221,  currently running as baremetal,  it was perfectly working too with Proxmox and Nvidia GPU pass-through.

I'm quite sure it would work too with iGPU as long as Proxmox pass-through is correctly configured and host CPU haswell compatible.

To pass-through the Nvidia,  I had to experiment and fix grub/bios configuration to make it work.

It doesnt make sense to emulate cpu which is already on host, for that you can just use host instead of kvm64 so it will virtualize cpu not emulate. I ve read its even possible to emulate amd cpu if you have intel cpu and other way around.

Edited by dimakv2014
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2 minutes ago, dimakv2014 said:

It doesnt make sense to emulate cpu which is already on host, for that you can just host instead of kvm64.

On my dedicated computer, running Proxmox, I never changed the CPU,  it was always to default (kvm64). And it worked as is.

Whereas same CPU setting on Gen8 is a Kernel Panic.

 

I edited my earlier post with a reference to old Jun's loader / Haswell CPU.

Edited by Orphée
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Только что, Orphée сказал:

On my dedicated computer, running Proxmox, I never changed the CPU,  it was always to default (kvm64). And it worked as is.

Whereas same CPU setting on Gen8 is a Kernel Panic.

Problem with kvm64 is that it splits your cpu cores into smaller virtual ones, and you can have more cores for vms than cpu has, maybe all problems just because of that, thats why I suggested to try with host (to simulate baremetal at least on cpu side) or use qemu64 as more flags can be added. 

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Just now, dimakv2014 said:

Problem with kvm64 is that it splits your cpu cores into smaller virtual ones, and you can have more cores for vms than cpu has, maybe all problems just because of that, thats why I suggested to try with host (to simulate baremetal at least on cpu side) or use qemu64 as more flags can be added. 

As I added in my older edit, changed to host still does a KP on the Gen8. as DS918+ loader does and always did.

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4 минуты назад, Orphée сказал:

As I added in my older edit, changed to host still does a KP on the Gen8. as DS918+ loader does and always did.

Ds918+ was running on my e5-2660v2 on juns loader 1.04b through esxi 6.7 for a long time, so I dont think fma3 has any role in this. And someone on forums said that it requires fma3, thats why its stange to me and I think people with ivy bridge missing something in settings.

Edited by dimakv2014
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7 minutes ago, dimakv2014 said:

Ds918+ was running on my e5-2660v2 on juns loader 1.04b through esxi 6.7 for a long time, so I dont think fma3 has any role in this. And someone on forums said that it requires fma3, thats why its stange to me and I think people with ivy bridge missing something in settings.

You seems to be the only one able to run DS918+ on older CPU than haswell/FMA3.

All reports from every others on xpenology state it never worked.

Baremetal or Proxmox = KP no matter what.

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12 минуты назад, Orphée сказал:

You seems to be the only one able to run DS918+ on older CPU than haswell/FMA3.

All reports from every others on xpenology state it never worked.

Baremetal or Proxmox = KP no matter what.

Never tried it on baremetal since 2 cpus on single motherboard with 20 cores for 918+ is kind of nonsense. But vm worked for a few years. As for baremetal minipc with celeron N2807 works perfectly with ds3622xs+, dva3221 and dva1622, no AI works on dva models, but there is no fma3 on BayTrail as well, so for me its surprising. Maybe I am more lucky or maybe people just missing something, some small detail. I ll buy extra ssd will build loaders again and tell me which logs to provide to prove it if you think I am fooling you. As well can show you logs for gtx1660 and dva3221 if you still think its not supported ) just tell me which logs you need, so you can see exact correct cpu and gpu info.

Edited by dimakv2014
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