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New build advice please..


SyncGuy
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Dear all,

 

As i've finally "grown out" of my current Asustor 202TE, I'm planning to build an up to 8-bay XPEnology NAS .

Below are my intended specs, followed by some of my concerns, which I require your advices please:

 

MB (SoC) - Asrock N3150-ITX

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YF9T1SY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I39ICBG5D44Y47

 

RAM - 1x4gb Kingston 1600mhz DDR3L

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YF9T1SY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I39ICBG5D44Y47

 

PSU: SilverStone 300W SFX

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FA4KP8S/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I320VXILN6OUEL&psc=1

 

PCI-e: IO Crest 4 Port PCI-e 2.0 x1 Controller Card (for ability to expand up to 8 HDD)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AZ9T3OU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I37YF45AKYJRV0&psc=1

 

Case: SilverStone DS380

http://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-Mini-ITX-Computer-DS380B/dp/B00IAELTAI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461427496&sr=8-1&keywords=ds380

 

 

My concerns are,

 

1) the above hardwares, alright? Yes, i will be booting off a thumbdrive.

2) Seeing that the DS380 case allows hot-swapping, would i be able to do so, with the above hardwares? I'm suspecting not as I would need an SAS?

 

Thanks in advance for your time and feedbacks..

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The 1x PCI-E card isn't going to work well for you (not as well as an SAS style expansion card). Mixing onboard SATA and a SATA Card will bottleneck your speeds (or at least that is what I've found)

 

I recently with an SoC build myself and went with a similar board, but instead of using a 1x card I went with a 16x board and LSI card.

 

Look here - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14074&p=60430#p60430

 

The ASRock QC5000-ITX/PH is fully supported, and gives you better expand ability for add on cards.

 

If you want to do it right, go hotswap with an SAS style connection. Just my .02 cents

 

**edit**

 

to clarify the Silverstone case is nice, but the benefit of going with an SAS breakout cable really makes your cable mgmt nice and clean, plus the adds flexibility. I really like the NSC-800.... like it so much I decided to purchase a second unit.

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Thank you so much abced and redpineapple!

 

@abced:

So you're saying that I'm good to go? There's not a need for an SAS card?

 

@redpineapple:

I came across that SoC mobo but figured that a newer N3150 would be better, with lower TDP.

I remembered reading up regarding sore concerns of using a SATA card and it states that there would not be any issue as there are sufficient bandwidth: 3gb/s. Is not correct?

 

All in all, you're both saying that the backplane of both the DS380 and the NSC-800 allows for hot swapping right?

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Have DS380 case here love it, but my next case is gonna be a unas case.

PCI-e 1x, as above said, will limit your speed, go with minimal 4x or better 8x.

Hotswapable is a setting in the bios, but i prefer the safe clean way. (Turn off, insert disk).

For what are you going to use this build? Just storage or also plex?

 

Posted via Xpenology.us

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Thank you so much abced and redpineapple!

 

@abced:

So you're saying that I'm good to go? There's not a need for an SAS card?

 

@redpineapple:

I came across that SoC mobo but figured that a newer N3150 would be better, with lower TDP.

I remembered reading up regarding sore concerns of using a SATA card and it states that there would not be any issue as there are sufficient bandwidth: 3gb/s. Is not correct?

 

All in all, you're both saying that the backplane of both the DS380 and the NSC-800 allows for hot swapping right?

 

Yes the backplane on either case allows for hot swapping, but there is one big (key) difference you are missing.

 

The NSC-800 (not sure about the DS380) comes pre-wired with SATA to SAS breakout cables. This means you can simply plug and go with a compatible SAS card.

 

I've said this before, so sorry to be a broken record... but go with hardware you know works. The LSI 9211 supports up to 8 cards natively and works great. I've gotten my cards pre-flashed on Ebay new - http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... S&_sacat=0 (just make sure it comes with P19 of the firmware and is flashed to IT mode)

 

I have done over 6 builds for Xpenology now, and each time I learn new things about what to do (and what not to do). In my experience the best read/write speeds come from a SAS 6gb/s card like the 9211 and paired with NAS drives like WD Red's.

 

I've done builds with other cards as well such as 1x PCI-E and onboard setups. They work... but not as well and you end up with a mess of cables.

 

The benefit of SAS cards and hot swapping drives is convenience. I don't have to tear my whole case apart to get at a drive. It's the reason why any enterprise grade hardware runs SAS. :grin:

 

 

I should also mention that I run my Xpenology OS as bare metal, I don't virtualize it.

 

Take a few moments and read through Brian M's blog here on the NSC-800 build - http://blog.brianmoses.net/2016/02/diy- ... ition.html

 

He decided to get the NSC-800 and NOT go with an SAS card like they are pre built for. See all the blue spaghetti of Sata cables? That is what I avoided doing with an SAS card on these (again... there is a reason why the case comes with these pre-wired)

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

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Hmm.... A lot of pointers for me to reconsider my build... :sad:

My intention was basically to "upgrade" my current Asustor 202TE to something slightly more powerful with capacity of 8 drives.

 

@brantje:

Actually, i'm not sure. I'm using my current Asustor 202TE as storage, torrenting, and also as a PMS (although I've set it NOT to do any transcoding even for remote access/viewing). Not sure if it would matter in relation to speed factor?

 

@redpineapple:

Ok..................... Now you REALLY have got me thinking REALLY hard...

 

Ok guys, know what? Let's just "build" one for me, if you don't mind..

 

I'm looking for as low power consumption as possible although I would definitely put it to "sleep" mode when i'm not using it and I'll wake it up via WoL when needed.

Also, it'll have 4x WD Red 3TB for a start, with expansion to a total of 8 drives over time.

 

An alternative that I've looked at although I'm not too sure if it's worth it:

 

CPU: i3-6100

MoBo: (?) Mini-ITX

PSU: SilverStone 300W PSU

RAM: 1x4gb Kingston 1600mhz DDR3L

PCI-E: LSI 9211?

Case: NSC-800

 

Or just go with a similar build as yours(best bang for buck for my usage?) + a separate HTPC for my PMS?

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I'm not saying my build is the best (everything is subjective obviously...)

 

But I just got done doing 2x identical builds with the NSC-800 with the hardware I linked earlier.

 

Both are rock solid and low power. Drive spindown works flawlessly as well (hibernates the drives after 10 min's of inactivity)

 

I will say that the more ram you throw in a system the better transfer speed you will have to begin with, as it throws everything into swap to start. I've got 16GB ram in my main NAS and I can copy entire .iso's across my network at 108 MB/S from start to finish due to the ram size. Lower ram (say 2 or 4GB) will peak out on swap and then drop down to the 70's or 80's and then pick back up due to I/O on the card.

 

The Asrock SoC I linked earlier is really low power and is also a quad core. It also only requires a 24pin power connection to run (no 4x / 6x/ or 8x power for CPU) :mrgreen: I'm not an AMD Fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, but almost every SoC board I found from Intel supports only a 1x or 4x slot on the board. Only the full CPU intel boards support 16x slots on an ITX board.

 

If you want SoC and want to run a full size expansion SAS card, your Intel options are quite limited.

 

Intel (but no passive!)- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 85V41B2421

Intel (again no passive) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813153257

Intel (not passive) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157594

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813135364 - 34.00

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0AJ40Z0974 - 71.00 (and is also an A4 like in my build..... but my A4 cost 54.00)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813157595 (this is the board I used)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 24G3RH4642

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813138426

 

Unless you plan on running plex / transcoding with more than 1 stream @ a time an SoC AMD quad core (like the Asrock I linked earlier) would do great.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions

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I should also note / mention that you can go with an FM2+ or Intel 11XX series board but it will be more expensive, and you will also need to find a 3rd party cooler to fit in the NSC-800.

 

Any non-SOC board will need to run a Noctua NH-L9I or similar cooler. The clearance is TIGHT >_>

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Thank you redpineapple! The deciding factor was understanding that PCI-e x1 vs x4 vs x8 bandwidth topic. I understand much better by how the respective bandwidth will affect me in the long run. :smile:

 

I've revised my build as follows:

 

MB (SoC) - Asrock QC-5000ITX/PH

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q5ZEOCO/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I3M2H6D21IEJRU

 

RAM - 2x8gb RAM Crucial Ballistic Sport

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006YG9EEW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I2NOCHIH9BW0I&psc=1

 

or, RAM - 1x16gb RAM Crucial? It's slightly cheaper and i suppose single channel would mean lower power but will it affect speed in anyway?

http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-12800-Non-ECC-CT2KIT102464BA160B-CT2CP102464BA160B/dp/B00AZGZFF4/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1461598717&sr=1-3&keywords=16gb+ddr3

 

PSU: SilverStone 300W SFX

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FA4KP8S/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I320VXILN6OUEL&psc=1

 

HDD: 2x WD Red 3TB (as add ons to my current 2x WD Red 3TB)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008JJLW4M/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=V6RL85LWPIOB&coliid=I2CNCLWDZUX3EC&psc=1

 

 

Future upgrade:

 

PCI-e: LSI-9211-8i SAS (for ability to expand up to 8 HDD)

Case: DS380 or NSC-800

Mooaar!! HDD!

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According to Asrock this board only supports 16GB ram. However Crucial says it runs up to 32GB - http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/qc5000-itx/CT7603505

I would run run a single 16GB stick for now (assuming it runs it with a single slot no problem)

 

FYI The QC-5000 is cheaper on Newegg.com if that's an option for you

 

The 300 watt PSU you listed won't work for the NSC-800.

 

If you can swing it... get the LSI card right away. They go for around 85/95 on Ebay with the link I provided. The reason I suggest this is I haven't tested the QC-5000's onboard SATA. I'm sure it's fine performance wise, but the LSI is really the way to go. The cheapest LSI cards ship new from China and take about 5 days to arrive.

 

If you don't purchase the NSC-800 just remember you need a SAS Reverse Breakout cable. Example found here - http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=sa ... e&_sacat=0

 

Let me know if you have any other questions =)

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Glad we were able to help you out.

 

Best of luck, and let us know if you have any questions. =)

 

p.s. feel free to throw together a few photo's of your build, including transfer speeds using onboard SATA. I'm curious on what you will see performance with with 16GB ram (or even 32 at some point)

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