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Hi all,

 

first post, but longtime reader and user. Also tried it. Thought about, what possibly could go wrong in the long run¬†ūüėĄ

 

Didn't work with this Hardware:

 

- Quanmax KEMX-6000 ITX with Sandybridge i7-QM Mobile CPU and Jun's 1.03b/DS3615xs

- Dual Intel Gbit NICs

 

Did exactly the same as with flyrides VM, but I used the hardware directly. Installs, reboots, and doesn't show up in Syno Assistant anymore. CPU utilization is not at 100%, but nevertheless -> Don't update before those genious guys here found a way to do it right.

6.2.3 Update 3 Install before was newish, so no big things to restore. Did the fresh disk way to regain controll over my RAID5 with 4 Disks and VM SSD Storage. So Recovery works. 

 

Be careful with fully configured DSMs on your box...all app installs are gone after this fresh disk recovery. However I could reimport my VMs. I indeed had already configured them and they are all still there and working.

BR,
Fratscha

PS: Used extra.lzma for DS3615xs and Jun's 1.03b. So you don't need to try that out. It doesn't work.

 

 

Edited by Fratscha
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the output of the serial console look s the same as with dsm 7 preview/beta

the kernel version is still the same (can be checked in kernel modules) so it might be a new protection layer

 

also different in 6.2.4 is that for 3615/17 there seem to extra bios flash stuff in the file and a there is a "SynoBootLoader.efi", might be a sign these units are migrated to uefi boot

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23 hours ago, Aigor said:

@IG-88 i dont know if you know, but there are methods to extract modules from bios, and in every pat-file there is bios inside.
UEFITool is a tool to open and look inside uefi bios, you can modify and save bios 

just to make clear, the bios updates have nothing to do with out problems in 6.2.4, 918+ does not get any and is broken too

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5 hours ago, Aigor said:

My old question was: do synology use a sort of renaming hardware method to protect theyr software? 

it would be possible but kind of lame as the loader would just need to be adapted to the new id's

also its unlikely to be done to "normal" hardware devices (like a marvel ahci controller) as it would mean you have to patch the kernel and drivers

so only synologys own hardware like usb loader hardware (f400:f400 - the 2nd value is there choice as a vendor), also easy to mimic/adapt

 

17 hours ago, IG-88 said:

918+ does not get any and is broken too

i must correct this, every version like 6.2.2, 6.2.3, 6.2.4 comes with a bios file (also 7.0)

the 6.2.4 and 6.2.3 pat file content on 918+ look pretty much the same (918+ is already uefi bios)

only 3615/17 have differences and it looks like some different change in bios update compared with 6.2.2->6.2.3

the presence of different flash utility's and a new SynoBootLoader.efi instead of SynoBootLoader.conf suggests a change from csm/legacy to uefi and when asking why, a reasonable answer might be secure boot and signed kernel/driver (they do use signing drives for a long time but if seemed to be used/enforced, maybe thats changing now)

 

if we want to continue speculating we might do this in a new different thread

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7 hours ago, GuybrushT said:

What is the chance to use the new update or DSM 7 in the future?

 

what do you prefer? crystal ball, tea leaves or throwing bones?

Edited by IG-88
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4 hours ago, IG-88 said:

 

what do you prefer? crystalball, tea leaves or throning bones?

 

I'm wondering if there is code/files in Virtual Machine Manager that can assist with developing a better loader, especially one that works with DSM 7. VMM can obviously deal with VDSM so there has to be some sort of "bootloader" as part of VMM that is capable of spinning up a VM of DSM.

 

What I am more intrigued about though is the supposed plan for DSM 7 full image backups having the option to restore directly to and boot on hypervisors like ESXi and Hyper-V. Synology said themselves in one of their DSM 7 announcement videos about backups that Active Backup for Business will be able to take full image DSM 7 backups and restore them for use on other hypervisors like ESXi, not just VMM. If this happens, then I imagine they are writing a bootloader specifically designed for ESXi and others that hopefully we can use.

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45 minutes ago, ilovepancakes said:

Synology said themselves in one of their DSM 7 announcement videos about backups that Active Backup for Business will be able to take full image DSM 7 backups and restore them for use on other hypervisors like ESXi, not just VMM. If this happens, then I imagine they are writing a bootloader specifically designed for ESXi and others that hopefully we can use.

 

That sounds like backing up a client and being able to restore it to indepenent hypervisor a la VEEAM, not virtualizing DSM for profit.  If Synology were to license DSM for virtualization on non-Synology hardware, there would not be much point to XPenology. I am personally all for it, but the model that has emerged so far is subscription-only and the pricing is a bit steep (QuTSCloud, $20/month for 4 cores - yikes).

 

If Synology were to market a perpetual-use license (even with a limited upgrade mode) for a reasonable price, for virtualization, I would think it would strongly appeal to this community.  I doubt they would do it for general-purpose hardware due to complexity of hardware compatibility.

 

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This is already available on current DSM and Active Backup, you can back up a bare metal machine and restore it to esxi or hyperv server

 

3 hours ago, ilovepancakes said:

What I am more intrigued about though is the supposed plan for DSM 7 full image backups having the option to restore directly to and boot on hypervisors like ESXi and Hyper-V. Synology said themselves in one of their DSM 7 announcement videos about backups that Active Backup for Business will be able to take full image DSM 7 backups and restore them for use on other hypervisors like ESXi, not just VMM. If this happens, then I imagine they are writing a bootloader specifically designed for ESXi and others that hopefully we can use.

Edited by djvas335
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I think it is best if a moderator or the admin can move this discussion into another thread @Polanskiman

It is understandable as IG-88 explained it to me that there is nothing we can do for now. Maybe Synology introduced a new security or something that they did is causing problems to the existing bootloader developed by Jun.

 

What we can do now is either wait until Jun or somebody else (with reverse engineering/programming skills) develops a new bootloader otherwise it seems we are stuck on 6.2.3...

Edited by gadreel
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I don't see any real benefits in 6.2.4 update, so never mind :)

In terms of DSM7.0 it would be great to have it, but if update will be not possible or risky I will consider OMV instead.
 

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Hello,

I have updated to 6.2.4 and, of course, my system crashed ...

I have tried a new stick with jun ds918 loader, i am able to see a nas on the assistant, put a 6.2 pat.

Then the system told me that disks have moved and propose to repare.

But at the end of reparation the system restarts and hangs ...

 

Any idea to save me ? 

Thanks.

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7 hours ago, rdidier said:

Any idea to save me ? 

yes, its possible to migate back to 6.2.3

i did a test install 6.2.4, copied one file file and emptied a directory and was able to get back to the state where it shows 6.2.3 and where it's migetable, so sot possible to "update" to 6.2.3, keeping settings

(some manual patching like nvme would need to be re-done as its in the same state as updating from a lower version of dsm)

i did one step more the needed and the update process so i will do it again and see how it looks in that state

will not take that long, but it's not going to be a full blown howto at start

 

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On 2/28/2021 at 6:37 PM, rdidier said:

That would be a chance for me ...

pretty sure you will not be the last

 

download a rescue/live linux like system rescue cd (i used a "older" version 6.0.3, mdadm and lvm worked ootb, any newer should be fine too), transfer it to a usb (not your dsm boot usb) to boot from it


assemble your raid1 system partition like here (1st partitions of all disks as /dev/md0)

skip anything about swap or volume1 data partition, we only need access to the dsm system partiton
https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/7004-tutorial-how-to-access-dsms-data-system-partitions/

 

mount the assembled raid1 to /mnt with this

mount /dev/md0 /mnt

 

then remove some files with this

rm -rf /mnt/SynoUpgradePackages
rm -f /mnt/SynoUpgrade.tar
rm -f /mnt/SynoUpgradeindex.txz
rm -f /mnt/SynoUpgradeSynohdpackImg.txz
rm -f /mnt/checksum.syno
rm -f /mnt/.syno/patch/*

 

and shutdown the linux

shutdown -h now

 

now you will have to restore the kernel files on your boot usb to 6.2.3 (the udpate also replace files on the loaders 2nd partition)

win10 can have some difficulties with mounting the 2nd partitons of the loader, so look here
https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/29872-tutorial-mount-boot-stick-partitions-in-windows-edit-grubcfg-add-extralzma/

(it can also be done with linux but i have not tried what other tools will extract the kernel files but if you are familiar with linux you will find out

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/25833-tutorial-use-linux-to-create-bootable-xpenology-usb/)

 

on 2nd partition delete all files except extra.lzma and extra2.lzma (if its 3615/3617 then its just extra.lzma)
use 7zip to open "DSM_xxxxx_25426.pat" (dsm 6.2.3 install file, depends on you dsm type 3615/3617/918+)

 extract "rd.gz" and "zImage" and copy it to the 2nd partition of your xpenology usb

<edit>

the assumption here is you already had 6.2.3 before the 6.2.4 udpate try, if not you would use the kernel files from the *.pat of the 6.2.x you had installed

as a example what could go wrong: if you had 6.2.2 and did 6.2.4 your extra/extra2.lzma on the loader where usually replaced with special ones made for 6.2.2, if you add 6.2.3 kernel files to the 6.2.2 extra/extra2 (drivers) then most of the drivers will not work as of the incompatibility with 6.2.1/6.2.2 with 6.2.0/6.2.3

if you are unsure about the extra/extra2 or you dsm version then use the original extra/extra2 from jun's loader (img file can be opened with 7zip, loaders kernel files and drivers in its extra/extra2 are 6.2.0 level) or use a extended version of the extra/extra2 made for 6.2.3 and use the kernel files of 6.2.3 if you had a older 6.2.x that would do a update to 6.2.3

</edit>

 

put back your usb to the xpenology system, boot up, find it in network (i used synology assistant) and migrate to version 6.2.3 (aka reinstall 6.2.3)
it will boot two times, one for 6.2.3, 2nd for 6.2.3_U3 (it will be downloaded automatically if internet connection is present)

 

everything should be back to normal except patches like nvme ssd patch (or other stuff you patched after installing 6.2.3 that is not dsm update resistant)

if that all works you i will  make a new thread in the tutorial section because if synology starts offering 6.2.4 with the web update there will be more people asking for a fix to come back to 6.2.3

please comment on how to make it easier to follow, its just a short version i tried once

 

if that sounds all to complicated then its still possible to use the other downgrade method (but you will loos all settings and end with a factory default DSM)

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/12778-tutorial-how-to-downgrade-from-62-to-61-recovering-a-bricked-system/

 

Edited by IG-88
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Thanks very much for your help.
During the afternoon I tried the other solution and lost my settings but data were recovered.
Then I restored settings with hyperbackup.
Then I had to finish manually but it seems to be in good way ...

Envoyé de mon SM-N960F en utilisant Tapatalk

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On 2/27/2021 at 2:42 PM, djvas335 said:

This is already available on current DSM and Active Backup, you can back up a bare metal machine and restore it to esxi or hyperv server

 

 

On 2/27/2021 at 11:46 AM, flyride said:

 

That sounds like backing up a client and being able to restore it to indepenent hypervisor a la VEEAM, not virtualizing DSM for profit.  If Synology were to license DSM for virtualization on non-Synology hardware, there would not be much point to XPenology. I am personally all for it, but the model that has emerged so far is subscription-only and the pricing is a bit steep (QuTSCloud, $20/month for 4 cores - yikes).

 

If Synology were to market a perpetual-use license (even with a limited upgrade mode) for a reasonable price, for virtualization, I would think it would strongly appeal to this community.  I doubt they would do it for general-purpose hardware due to complexity of hardware compatibility.

 

 

No, I really mean for DSM OS full image backups to run on a hypervisor as DSM, not just backups of VMs and bare metal like ABB does now. Synology said it themselves in this video (watch from 13:15 mark). Hopefully they actually pull through with coming out with that feature. There is a little note on bottom of video that says Coming Later in 2021 so we'll see but I am hopefully this code/feature either eliminated the need for Xpenology on ESXi or provides code that Xpenology can use to much better make a bootloader for ESXi DSM installs.

 

 

Edited by ilovepancakes
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Anyone try fresh install? I have been through this thread and still not entirely sure weather the experiences noted are fresh install attempts of upgrades from 6.2.3.

Cheers

MF

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