HP MicroServer GEN8 Migation To 2U

[Vodka2014 8]

Hi,

 

I am about to get an 2U Rack Mount Chassis with 8 x 3.5" SATA Bays. I have 2x HP MicroServer GEN8's on the same DSM 6.2.3-25426 Update 2 & Loader DS3615xs.

 

1. If i add the First Array from the First G8 to the new setup will i have issues or must i start fresh &

2. How easy is it to load the Second Array to the new setup or is it safer that i just add new disks and migrate it over.

 

The Hardware I want to use is the below:

 

MSI MAG B365M LGA1151 / MSI MAG B460M LGA1200 - Still Deciding.

8GB / 16GB DDR4 - Still Deciding On MHz

I3-10100 / I5-9400F / I5-10400F / I5-10400 - Still Deciding.

Samsung 250GB M.2 SSD

 

Please let me know

 

Thanks in advanced.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Vodka2014

[IG-88 792]

when it comes to buy hardware its good to know about the limits you are up to with xpenology

(thats based on whats now usable, we don't know if there ever will be a hack for dsm 7.0 and for what hardware base it will be, so buying for the future is futile or at least risky and might make unneeded limits now you might never overcome in the next two years)

 

1. cpu cores, HT "cores" will count as normal cores when countig

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/13333-tutorialreference-6x-loaders-and-platforms/

3615 and 918+ - 8 cores

3617 - 16 cores

BUT only 918+ can use the hardware transcoding of the iGPU (intel quick sync video)

so if you buy a cpu with 6 cores  with HT ist like 12 cores to DSM and then only 8 cores would be used in 918+ and that would be usually halt of it HT cores so

you can estimate the performance with ht core ~25% of a normal/full core so a 6 +ht would be the equivalent of  7.5 real cores, wehn only 4 real + 4 ht can be used with 918+ you would have the equivalent of 5 cores or when disabling HT in bios (if that is possible, you should check that before buying a board) its 6 cores

only 3617 could use all 6 +ht performance (but has not hardware transcoding)

sizing need to be mindful to what the system is supposed to do and bigger is not better or at least you waste some money as you loose because of disabling ht and the performance is down to a lower grade cpu, so safe that money

 

there is also a limit to what the driver of the 918+ supports as iGPU for transcoding

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/28321-driver-extension-jun-103b104b-for-dsm623-for-918-3615xs-3617xs/

 

also here bigger or newer is no better and an most cases the few percent for a faster cpu or a newer cpu are not that important

so i low tier 9th gen cpu could be a good choice compared to a biggest 10th gen cpu

in that example the i915 driver works ootb with 9th gen low tier (9100/9300) and with the high tier 10th gen there is no way at all to get it working (for now)

 

high tier 9th gen and low 10th can be persuaded with a manually patched driver (copy a patched driver needs to be redone after most updates)

 

On 11/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Vodka2014 said:

MSI MAG B365M LGA1151 / MSI MAG B460M LGA1200 - Still Deciding.

i would see two 4x pcie 3.0 as minimum (when not 10G is onboard, can also be 8 or 16 but most use cases have only 4x cards)  and 2xM.2 if possible (when there are tree 4x pcie slots a 2nd m.2 can be realized with a pcie to m.2 adapter card)

so a mini-itx is no good choice

when playing safe it's 5 additional sata ports per pcie 4x slot and a 10G nic per 4x slot

when the board comes with 6xsata and adding a 5port card the there are enough ports fns there is still one or two pcie 1x slot to have a 2port sata card

so for 10th gen cpu this would be your options

(i also added a serial port as its a great option to get forward when dsm is not booting as its console output is switche to serial ports, no use for a monitor)

https://geizhals.de/?cat=mbp4_1200&xf=11924_2~12417_2~17979_1x+seriell~2962_6

 

same for 8/9th gen cpu's

https://geizhals.de/?cat=mbp4_1151v2&xf=11924_2~12417_2~17979_1x+seriell~2962_6

 

On 11/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Vodka2014 said:

8GB / 16GB DDR4 - Still Deciding On MHz

 

as long as you are not planning on extensive vm usage the MHz is not that important, you won't see a measurable impact on a system using normal hdd's (maybe on a all flash with 64/128GB RAM for cacheing?), 16GB leaves options for VM use and is used as cache (but thats mood with a 1GBit nic, impact of more ram can be seen with a 10G nic)

 

On 11/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Vodka2014 said:

I3-10100 / I5-9400F / I5-10400F / I5-10400 - Still Deciding.

F ist without GPU, so no hardware transcoding, there is not that much difference and you would keep that option, if you sure about not needing it in the future you can buy a F version and plan for 3617 with max. 16 cores

if you buy a 10th high tier there might be an option to use it in the future but that's not sure (at least not with dsm)

my choice is still 9100/9300 as it works ootb and its not to big for 918+

if a cpu heavy vm use is planned then a bigger cpu and esxi is a option and then using dsm in a vm with less cores to stay in the limits

but i guess if you where thinking about RS1219+ a 9300 should be ok

 

On 11/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Vodka2014 said:

Samsung 250GB M.2 SSD

1 ssd = read cache and that's not very useful in most home use scenarios

i'd scrap that for now, a 1GBit network as you plan it is just ~110MB/s and normal raid with 8-16TB disks should do that without ans ssd cache

keep the option of two m.2 ssd fpr the board and you can have that later when needing it like 10G network and the ~400-500 MB/snormal hdd's can handle without cache is not enough

 

 

[Vodka2014 8]

So after thinking about all of this it will work out better if i get an RS1219+ as the price i am going to pay will work out almost the same

 

But can i do the Migration ?

[IG-88 792]

8 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

But can i do the Migration ?

 

yes, when using the g8 disk in the RS you will offer the option to migrate and keep all data

you might need to renew some plugins but you will keep data and users/shares that way

if the result is not what you want you can still reset dsm to its factory setting s (and keep your data on the volume/storage pool)

 

if you only want to use basic nas stuff the RS1219+ might be ok but its pretty under powered for its price

the cpu is measly, only 2GB ram, no 10G network, no M.2 slots

with just one pcie 3.0 4x slot its also pretty limited to extend and you might be more limited with the hardware you can use to extend

to get real good performance for ssd or m.2 cache you need two drives (read/write cahe) and for 10G it should be m.2 nvme to make sense

also no option to switch to another system/os like omv, esxi or proxmox

for docker it needs at least more ram and for vm's the cpu might be to limited at all, also no hardware trancoding for video (if you need this)

 

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks @IG-88 So it might just be better if i build my own I3 / I5 System in an 2U.

 

What parts would you recommend and what loader ?

 

Thanks in advanced .

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks @IG-88 For all this info. There is a lot for me to think about here.

 

I might start off with my Z170i & 6600K as a Test bed and then get the I3-9100 with an ATX MB so there is more expand ability.

 

Thanks for al the advice here again.

[IG-88 792]

On 11/27/2020 at 9:58 AM, Vodka2014 said:

What parts would you recommend and what loader ?

if you want to use intel qsv then there is no choice, 1.04b for 918+

 

On 11/27/2020 at 9:58 AM, Vodka2014 said:

So it might just be better if i build my own I3 / I5 System in an 2U.

depends on your point of view, the hardware synology builds is usually stable working and easy to handle

a custom build will have more flexibility and power but need careful handling of the updates (check the forum before doing a update) and depending on hardware choice there can be problems with cables or drive cages, psu's can also be a cause of trouble

the rackstation does not support intel qsv so in theory its not fair to compare with that one

a 8 drive build will only need one additional ahci controller and its still possible to have a open pcie 4x slot for a 10g nic

maybe you should make a list a features you really need, choose a synology unit according to that and then take that price as base (or you might end up not finding a unit from synology at all and a custom build is the only way without to much compromises)

 

 

14 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

I might start off with my Z170i & 6600K as a Test bed and then get the I3-9100 with an ATX MB so there is more expand ability.

that sounds ok, you dont need a hight end hardware in most cases

with just one pcie slot and only 4 onboard sata you might need your one slot for a jmb585 5port ahci card for now, 10G can be added by a m.2 to pcie adapter or maybe with a new hardware

use laoder 1.04b and with 6.2.3 you will need my extra/extra2.lzma to get qsv working

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks again @IG-88 this is all very helpful

[Vodka2014 8]

@IG-88 One thing i forgot to ask. If i get any Intel MB with that I3-9100 i take it i use the extra files like you stated BUT are there any BIOS Settings I need to enable or disable.

[IG-88 792]

1 hour ago, Vodka2014 said:

Intel MB with that I3-9100 i take it i use the extra files like you stated BUT are there any BIOS Settings I need to enable or disable.

not with 918+ its working with uefi (and csm but thats not needed), the intel gpu should be enable in bios but thats usually default, also secure boot should not be enabled (but also that should be default)

only 3615/17 loader 1.03b with only csm mode it can be a little more fun as you also have to use the non uefi boot device and that might only appear after one reboot with csm active

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks

[Vodka2014 8]

Hi @IG-88

 

So I got my Asus TUF H370 & I3-9100. As you stated I need to use 918. The Extra file i need to use where is that please and i do have 1x Samsung 250GB M.2 SSD that i will setup as Cache i take it.

 

Should i do this all on a USB Drive for the Loader or Get it on the M.2.

 

I want to do this right since i will be moving 8 Disks to this new Solution.

 

Thanks

[IG-88 792]

13 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

The Extra file i need to use where is that please

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/28321-driver-extension-jun-103b104b-for-dsm623-for-918-3615xs-3617xs/

 

13 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

The Extra file i need to use where is that please and i do have 1x Samsung 250GB M.2 SSD that i will setup as Cache i take it.

that needs patching

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/13342-nvme-cache-support/

 

13 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

Should i do this all on a USB Drive for the Loader or Get it on the M.2.

maybe read the faq (again?) and do a test install with a single hdd where you can test, the loader fro m taht test can then be reused to the real migration of the 8 disks

the usb holds only boot code and the kernel, (dsm) systen is on every disk as raid1 (1st partition, 2nd is swap, also raid1, rest can be used to create user defines raid for datat)

cache dirves are only for cache and do not have system partitions, m.2 can only be used as cache

 

 

btw. av-codecs and hardware transcoding with 918+ and videostation also needs patching

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/24864-transcoding-without-a-valid-serial-number/

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/30552-transcoding-and-face-recognitionpeople-and-subjects-issue-fix-in-once/

 

 

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks again @IG-88

 

UPDATES:

 

1. I did not get a NIC or anything to show and once I added the extra/extra 2 files worked using - extra918plus_v0.13.3.zip

 

2. My Samsung 250GB NVME SSD works as an SSD Cache (Ready-Only) using - libsynonvme.so.1

 

3. For Plex I have not even started to look at this yet

Edited December 18, 2020 by Vodka2014

[IG-88 792]

16 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

3. For Plex I have not even started to look at this yet

if you use plex and you already have 6.2.3 918+ with the recent extra/extra2 the devices in /dev/dri should be present (i915 driver working) and thats it, plex should be able to use that (with plexpass)

[Vodka2014 8]

Hi @IG-88

 

So as per my Post Improper Shutdown Issues I am having massive issues with my new setup now. When i copy files it hangs and freezes then reboots  

[Vodka2014 8]

Hi @IG-88

 

Do you know where I can find all the Chipsets for the SATA Controllers. The one with the JMB585 5-Port AHCI Card is taking ages to get to me.

 

Will Marvell or ASM work as well.

 

Thanks again for all your help and advice

 

Thanks

[IG-88 792]

11 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

Will Marvell or ASM work as well.

marvell does not have a recent pcie 3.0 sata/ahci chip and with just 1 or two pcie lanes for 4 ports ... , the often seen 88se9215 only has one lane and that#s 500MB/s for 4 ports

if any the 88se9230/35 (two lanes 4 ports)

 

asm has the asm1166 (6 ports 2 lanes pcie 3.0) but the firmware behaves odd, dsm will find 32 sata ports, the 6 ports work as expected and all following ports for another controller will get two digit sdXX, it seemed to work even with a disk shown as number 40 in the gui but i did not do much testing, i might fail when rebuilding a raid or in other situations

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/35882-new-sataahci-cards-with-more-then-4-ports-and-no-sata-multiplexer/

 

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks again @IG-88

 

So will stick to the JMB585 as you stated and just wait. Will look at that link as well and see if i can order something in my region

 

This is the one i got on order - XT-XINTE Add On Card PCIE SATA Controller SATA3.0 PCI-E x4 GEN3 Card Adapter

 

5 Port SATA3.0

JMicron JMB585 Chip Set

 

Thanks for all your help and support on all of this.

 

Thanks

Edited January 20 by Vodka2014

[Vodka2014 8]

Hi @IG-88

 

I have found a 8 Port Lazmin Card that uses  Marvel 88SE92xx + JMB5xx ChipSets. Is this one ok to use as my other one has gotten lost from China to my place

 

If not what other one do you recommend to get since it seems anything from China is not getting out.

 

Thanks

[IG-88 792]

5 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

I have found a 8 Port Lazmin Card that uses  Marvel 88SE92xx + JMB5xx ChipSets. Is this one ok to use as my other one has gotten lost from China to my place

no its no good, JMB575 is a 1 to 5 multiplexer

88se9215 has 4ports and one port will we multiplexed to 5 so its 3+5=8 but with dsm and no multiplexer the max, you would be able to use is 4 ports (one of the 5 "added" will be usable)

 

5 hours ago, Vodka2014 said:

If not what other one do you recommend to get since it seems anything from China is not getting out.

that depends on the pcie slot (1x or 4x+) and the number of ports you need, if a 4 ports card is not enough and jmb585 is no option then there are pcie 2x cards with 8 usable ports

https://xpenology.com/forum/topic/19854-sata-controllers-not-recognized/?tab=comments#comment-122709

bit are limited to 1000MB/s because of pcie 2.0 and 2 lanes,

in theory a lsis sas controller is possible too (also 8 sata ports) but there are problems with 918+

 

maybe two 4port marvell based controller in 2 slots (4x slot or wieder)? when its 88se9230/9235 the its 2 pcie 2.0 lanes for 4 ports and with 250MB/s per disk that would be ok as long as its not ssd

when its 88se9215 based then its 4ports with one 2.0 lane (500MB/s)

when using 88se92xx based controllers it depends on you disks (hdd vs ssd) the limit to pcie 2.0 is a problem when it comes to ssd's

[TNa681 4]

Hi @Vodka2014

 

I am having a 4 Port SATA III PCI-e 2.0 x2 Card from Syba Modell SI-PEX40062.

https://www.sybausa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=157

 

I have used this card for aboout 1.5 years and my XPEnology NAS was running almost 24/7. So I highly recomment it.

 

Since my new board does have enough onboard Sata ports I don't need it anymore. If you want it, you can have it. By the way, I'm from Germany.

Edited February 1 by TNa681

[Vodka2014 8]

Thanks @IG-88 Then I will stay away  

 

Thanks @TNa681 I will take a look.

 

The main issue is getting Items from the USA or China or anywhere is an massive issue right now. So I have found and JMB585 again so will see if this arrives if not will have to look local for an Marvell ChipSet as you recommended. 

 

Thanks 

Edited February 1 by Vodka2014