Jump to content
XPEnology Community

Where is the Source Code?


Mauri
 Share

Recommended Posts

 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/dsgpl/files/

 

anything special you have in mind?

 

there are problems as synology has not published any new kernel source for more then two years

as we need to use the original binary kernel from synology there is a more and more stretching gap the prevent compiling certain driver from that old (beta) source

as i can't code there would be a demand for people being able to correct problems with sata and ata drivers that do not compile anymore (lower importance by now as ahci is working and most boards/chipsets support ahci ootb) because synology only cared about the drivers they want to use and the kernel changes prevent other drivers compiling, there are also problems with the latest binary kernel (dsm 6.2.2, v24922) that result in scsi/sas drivers crashes when the driver is loaded an the hardware is present, that might need some skills in debugging and kind of reverse engineering to find out what synology changed and mod our old source in a way to get this drivers working

another point is that jun (with his 1.04b loader) delivered binary backported drivers for i915 (to support hardware transcoding for newer cpu/igpu) but did not provide source so we cant recompile this drivers for dsm 6.2.2 (as it would be needed because of compile option changes with dsm 6.2.2), also this source is from 5/2018 and might not support newer 9th gen cpu/igpu so a new backported i915 driver for kernel 4.4.59 might be a good thing

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay,

 

But that code is the one made by synology, I meant the one you (this community) are building.

 

So I assume that there is no repo with the code you are developing, and everyone has a different code. Why is that? Wouldn't a repository make developing easier for you?

 

Sadly, I won't be able to collaborate because I mainly develop web stuff and xpenology is really low level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mauri said:

So I assume that there is no repo with the code you are developing,

i'm not modding the kernel source from synology, i use/add external drivers from intel, realtek ... to compile newer/better drivers

so there is no "developing"

the project is based on a hack that uses the original kernel and for dsm it looks like as it running on a original hardware (emulated drivers from original hardware is one part of the hack)

 

1 minute ago, Mauri said:

and everyone has a different code. Why is that?

 

atm there is only me trying to provide additional drivers, i have only done 4 or 5 small changes to additional drivers or the the original kernel source

even as i was not around for about one year no one else did anything about the driver problems with dsm 6.2.2 even if it only was about some (small) change in kernel config to compile kernel and drivers - it a small community

 

1 minute ago, Mauri said:

Wouldn't a repository make developing easier for you?

 

no need and it would take additional time to do and maintain it

and i'm not a (linux) "developer" a accidentally know how to compile driver and i'm willing to invest enough time to make it useful for more people, my start point was just a missing driver button.ko for a convenient shutdown by pressing the the power button that was missing in dsm 6.0 loader, the rest is more or less the will to give something back (after using xpenology for ~2 years without participating)

 

24 minutes ago, Mauri said:

Sadly, I won't be able to collaborate because I mainly develop web stuff and xpenology is really low level.

pity, i'm willing to do the tedious work but we will need a coder sooner or later if synology does not publish newer kernel source

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/18/2020 at 5:59 AM, Mauri said:
Where is the source code? How do you share the code?

How can people collaborate?

 

I suppose you were referring to the source code of the loader. In simple terms the source code is not public and never was. Only one person is responsible for creating the current loader.  

As for not being able to collaborate that's just non sense, sorry. Most people here started from scratch and ended up collaborating more than what they thought they could. Perhaps you should stick around see how you can help. I am not a coder myself yet I have created several tutorials, I give advise and administer the forum on a daily basis. Like everyone I am not always right but we are all here to help each other.

 

What kind of "web stuff" do you develop?

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I guess like the OP, I arrived here with the same question.  I downloaded the loader.  It appears to be a HD raw image.  It has 3 partitions.  The first appears to contain the grub config and bzImage.  The 2nd partition contains the initrd, a kernel and some lzma files which I haven't looked at, the third partition is not recognised, and I can't mount it, but it contains data (I don't much like that latter point, but never mind for now).

 

Just to clarify, what sources are we looking for here?  Where is the clever stuff done?  Some initrd binary that performs the download of DSM?  Or something in the bzImage?

 

thanks!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think at this point people to need to be quite clear what project they're asking for source for.

 

I can think of at least the following that have been worked on/used on these forums over the years:

- Synology DSM (some stuff released, some not: https://sourceforge.net/projects/dsgpl/)

- Jun's Loader (source never released, not open source afaik)

- xpenoboot loader (???)

- quicknik's loader (???)

- nanoboot (???)

- redpill (https://github.com/RedPill-TTG)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that's a very good point.  I don't know.  My understanding is Jun's loader works best for most people, but for me closed source isn't acceptable.  Most of the info on youtube, google searches leads to Jun's loader.  I've only skimmed the info on this site but it seems redpill isn't really 'production ready' yet.  I trust Synology DSM to some extent so no particular interest in looking at their sources.

 

About the other three I've no idea.  Do they work well?

 

The reason why I'm looking at this is because although I have a DS213j it's quite old and not that powerful.  I'd be happy if I could just transfer that system to a virtual machine (serial number and all), but it appears to be arm7, so not likely to be all that fast under emulation.  I guess Jun's loader is only for the x86-based devices and that's where the development effort goes?

 

I'm just mulling over whether I should try to contribute here.  But usually people reverse-engineer so they can re-purpose hardware.  Once it's done it's done (until a new version of hardware is released).  But in this case it seems it's reverse-engineering an internal Synology interface which could change at any time with version updates.  They could bring to bear all kinds of protection features that would just kill the project and waste all the work that's gone into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you're objecting to a closed-source bootloader that enables you to use a commercial OS distribution that itself has closed-source elements? :D

 

Redpill definitely isn't production-ready yet, but it's getting there. I'm using it for day-to-day use on a couple of production servers, but I have read and understood all documentation and open issues on the GitHub repos and am contributing to the development effort.

 

But yeah, you're correct in the second part: these projects are about getting Synology's software to run on other, generic x86 hardware, and keeping the loader working through Synology OS revisions. There's no effort I'm aware of to allow other software to run on Synology hardware (although, strangely, I've seen a few ppl mention running DSM on QNAP hardware).

 

From what you're saying I think you'd be better of looking at something like FreeNAS, but another option is to build an x86 system that will take the HDDs from you DS213j and put an xpenology bootloader stick in it (Jun's if you're happy with being stuck on 6.2.3 and closed source, or Redpill if you want newer and open-source but not production-ready (yet)). When it boots it will detect the existing install on the old disks and ask if you want to migrate to a new install. Your data, settings and apps should all be there ready for you when it finishes installing, regardless of that fact that you've moved from an ARM box to x86. That's one of the nice things about DSM.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, WiteWulf said:

So you're objecting to a closed-source bootloader that enables you to use a commercial OS distribution that itself has closed-source elements? :D

I'm surprised you think this is in any way comparable.  If Synology do something malicious and someone finds out they get their asses handed to them in court.  There's no such protection for this closed-source loader.  Who is Jun?  What is his address?  Where would any court papers be served?  I've no problem with closed-source software per se since I make a living out of it.  I use open and closed-source software as I feel appropriate.  I think you have to have a balance.

 

Thanks for the tip about Redpill.  It sounds like I should definitely try it, it came across as a bit Alpha but if you're using it successfully I will give it a go, especially if that's where the dev effort is now.

 

I have tried FreeNAS but I'm not a fan.  Yes, I eventually got it to do what I wanted but nothing like as painlessly as DSM. 

 

As for buying another NAS (Orphee's suggestion), yes I could do that, but I'm running Proxmox 24/7 already, so it would be nice to combine the two boxes, save some space in my house etc... I have 8 disk bays free in the Proxmox server, seems wasted right now.

 

Cheers!

Edited by bifferos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bifferos said:

I'm surprised you think this is in any way comparable.  If Synology do something malicious and someone finds out they get their asses handed to them in court.  There's no such protection for this closed-source loader.  Who is Jun?  What is his address?  Where would any court papers be served?  I've no problem with closed-source software per se since I make a living out of it.  I use open and closed-source software as I feel appropriate.  I think you have to have a balance.

 

Thanks for the tip about Redpill.  It sounds like I should definitely try it, it came across as a bit Alpha but if you're using it successfully I will give it a go, especially if that's where the dev effort is now.

 

I have tried FreeNAS but I'm not a fan.  Yes, I eventually got it to do what I wanted but nothing like as painlessly as DSM. 

 

As for buying another NAS (Orphee's suggestion), yes I could do that, but I'm running Proxmox 24/7 already, so it would be nice to combine the two boxes, save some space in my house etc... I have 8 disk bays free in the Proxmox server, seems wasted right now.

 

Cheers!

As someone else already stated on the forum about Jun's closed sources. As long as there is no alternative, it is up to you to trust him or not.

Then if you don't trust him, just do better than him, or stick to official Synology products.

 

Jun gave the opportunity for a lot of us to bring Synology OS on custom hardwares... Thanks to him. Redpill is trying to take the relay and thanks to them too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, bifferos said:

I'm surprised you think this is in any way comparable.  If Synology do something malicious and someone finds out they get their asses handed to them in court.  There's no such protection for this closed-source loader.  Who is Jun?  What is his address?  Where would any court papers be served?  I've no problem with closed-source software per se since I make a living out of it.  I use open and closed-source software as I feel appropriate.  I think you have to have a balance.

 

Thanks for the tip about Redpill.  It sounds like I should definitely try it, it came across as a bit Alpha but if you're using it successfully I will give it a go, especially if that's where the dev effort is now.

 

I have tried FreeNAS but I'm not a fan.  Yes, I eventually got it to do what I wanted but nothing like as painlessly as DSM. 

 

As for buying another NAS (Orphee's suggestion), yes I could do that, but I'm running Proxmox 24/7 already, so it would be nice to combine the two boxes, save some space in my house etc... I have 8 disk bays free in the Proxmox server, seems wasted right now.

 

You're talking about using Synology's code on hardware it was never intended for, and that you haven't paid for or have entered into a EULA for. I get your argument re open/closed source in general, but this project is very unofficial and I doubt you'd have any recourse in law with Synology in this sort of usage if they did "something malicious". To address the concerns you have you'd be much better off paying Synology for their product, imho. You also, of course, have no guaranteed legal recourse when using open source software in general. The person who uploads it to github, or wherever, need not be who they say they are. FWIW, Jun's loader is pretty much dead, development-wise. No one ever really knew who they were or where they were. That's a risk some people are willing to take, I guess, when they want something without paying for it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

With the above in mind, it's worth pointing out that, although redpill is open source, the developers have gone to some lengths to protect their identity and avoid potential legal entanglements with Synology.

 

Please don't take my comments re. the stability of redpill as a recommendation in any way of it's stability or readiness for use. I've not suffered data loss, but it's a possibility, ymmv.

 

Your comments re. FreeNAS strike a chord with me. I consider myself a proficient linux user, but I wanted a system that "just works" out of the box and has managed system updates. Of course I wasn't prepared to pay the premium for the Synology hardware, so that's why I'm here.

 

Proxmox seems the right approach for you, given your investment in the chassis, and there are a lot of people using it (as well as VMware) on the redpill discussion thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, WiteWulf said:

 

You're talking about using Synology's code on hardware it was never intended for, and that you haven't paid for or have entered into a EULA for. I get your argument re open/closed source in general, but this project is very unofficial and I doubt you'd have any recourse in law with Synology in this sort of usage if they did "something malicious". To address the concerns you have you'd be much better off paying Synology for their product, imho. You also, of course, have no guaranteed legal recourse when using open source software in general. The person who uploads it to github, or wherever, need not be who they say they are.

 

Synology is not going to intentionally destroy or ransom your data, just because they deem you guilty of software piracy.  Even bad boys Micro$haft don't get up to this sh*t, they just cut off your updates.  The negative PR would be too great, and they'd be opening themselves up to lawsuits.  If you disagree, name one corporation who's done this!

 

There is no parallel with anonymity on github IMHO, because the source is open to scrutiny.  Also, github is policed in a way mega.nz is not.  They won't tolerate malicious code on their servers without taking action, at least not unless it's clearly labelled as such (perhaps for research purposes).

 

I am not attacking this Jun guy, (or girl?) I'm simply questioning their motives, which I don't currently understand.  One motive is money.  Another is helping people.  Unless I understand the reason for withholding the source (which doesn't appear to have been given), it's surely natural to question things?  Most of my projects are open-source and always have been:

https://github.com/bifferos

 

The only exception was Biffboot (previously closed-source, now open-source), because I used it to make money.   My motives are (or should be) transparent.  The projects are just there to help people, and also a nice way of keeping a (free) store of stuff I've worked on, so what have I got to hide?  There is no hidden agenda here.  Jun, on the other hand doesn't seem to be selling anything, and so that removes that reason for staying closed-source.  I don't think they can monetize this in the future either.  So I'm left to wonder.

 

5 hours ago, WiteWulf said:

With the above in mind, it's worth pointing out that, although redpill is open source, the developers have gone to some lengths to protect their identity and avoid potential legal entanglements with Synology.

This is understandable, and perfectly OK. They are worried about future legal action.  I don't think protecting your anonymity online has anything to do with releasing closed-source software.  If you want to help people you hand over as much info as you can.... about the problem!   I don't need a list of home addresses to use some software, so it's not important.  I can read the source, and it's good enough to trust community feedback if anything is amiss. This is how almost the entire internet works on open-source and is (relatively) safe.

 

5 hours ago, WiteWulf said:

 

Please don't take my comments re. the stability of redpill as a recommendation in any way of it's stability or readiness for use. I've not suffered data loss, but it's a possibility, ymmv.

Understood!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/1/2021 at 9:52 PM, bifferos said:

I'm simply questioning their motives, which I don't currently understand... Unless I understand the reason for withholding the source (which doesn't appear to have been given), it's surely natural to question things?

One pretty obvious reason might've been that Jun had access to Synology's closed sources (probably by being Synology's employee), and felt that opening source of their loader would identify them.

 

And I should note that opening sources is entirely separate idea, not necessary related to helping people or making money or gaining fame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...