fonix232

Hey Jun, Thanks for the updates. Would the DS916 build work on, say, a G4560 too? Or HW accel requires not just an integrated GPU, but AVX 2.0 too? Also... The DS916+ only has 4 disks. But most of us use 6 or more disks. Will that still work? I see that there's a 5-bay expansion for that model, the DX513. Will the extra disks be detected as an expansion case or something? Also I dropped your an e-mail a while back!

Synology's DSM is Linux, with their own proprietary additions (funny thing, they do break GPL with their synobios kernel module!), including the app system, volume system, and the web UI. What we do is take this specifically licensed product (because this together is a product), break that license and ToS, and install it on our hardware. Then we circumvent the protection employed by Synology to make it work (and also we add some extra stuff (kernel drivers for support, mostly). So yes, we are infringing the license of DSM, because it says it can only be used on Synology hardware (hardware it is sold on).

Hey again m8 sorry to bother you so much.. I was curious about this that you said highlighted. How exactly do you plan on setting up this cache disk for downloads? The idea sounds good that if for example your downloading something through torrents directly on the NAS, you do it just to this cache SSD disk to start with. Then if you want to move it to main folder on the HDD then the drives wake up from sleep. Instead of them awake all the time while just downloading.. Did I understand this correct? The main hDD drives will still sleep while downloads are going just to SSD ..? Dont you also need to someway make the OS run from this SSD drive as well then? I mean the application for use of downloading for example transmission, its on the main HDD disks probably right (if say you have 1 volume based on 4 HDD disks and then 1 volume of cache for the 1 SSD disk). am I understanding you correct..? Also if I want 4 main HDD disks and 1 SSD cache disk like you described I would need a motherboard with 5 sata correct? or at least 4 sata + a extra pci card with extra satas.. DSM has a built-in SSD cache feature, which you can easily use for this very purpose. It will load stuff that's accessed frequently (say, a torrent download), and use the whole SSD storage for caching. And no, you don't need an extra SATA port. The motherboard you chose already has an M.2 key M (or key B?) slot, where you can add an SSD (which has improved speed over SATA, with select models you can reach 2000-2500MB/s write speeds).

Sure, you can, but first read license agrements. IMO, since license is given to a particual hardware, which is identified by pair of serial with mac, by using serial and mac on xpenology and using survillance licence you will violate license agrements. But it is just my opinion and you can ask synology support about that. Let say synology will find a way to identify that you have installed extra license on xpenology, and will revoke all extra licenses with no refund? What will you do? You're already violating ToS by using XPEnology, so...

It should not matter what serial and MAC you use, since that is not used by the loader. You can still use the DS3615xs images, with, saj, a DS214 serial and MAC.

Use DS3615xs for now, especially if you want DSM6.1. DS3617xs has a time bomb built in which renders your NAS unusable after ~12-24hrs. Use your own MAC address instead of any generated one, and use that for WOL.

No, that's simply stupid... Okay, maybe with VDSM you're right. But Docker for one is free software, so is the software combo that makes up Mail, et cetera. But there's a key difference - QuickConnect is 90% service provided by Synology, running on something that is not your server. The rest, is is just packages of usually free software within a Synology wrapper, which requires little to no maintenance. Yes, even VDSM, since it's just KVM with a nice web interface...

Nice choices. For the case, I like Fractal Design stuff, but they did not have a case that would've supplied for my use-case scenario. The Bitfenix ones are more of a fit. For the motherboard, it's also a great choice, however the H270 chipset feels a bit of an overkill. A B150 is more than enough in my opinion. But if you need the 6 ports, well, you need the 6 SATA ports. CPU cooler: There's literally no need for it. I mean, the G4560 provides pretty good performance even on conservative governor, in idle. I never had it go over 70°C with the stock cooler that came with it. So I'd leave it out for now, and if it's too hot for your preference, you can always grab one and install it later. RAM is also a nice choice, maybe a bit of an overkill though. PSU is fine, I believe you can connect up to 4 disks per Molex, though it depends on the PSU's total output on the 3.3V and 5V lines. WD RED drives are pretty good, I'm running 3 RE3's right now (1TB only, but planning on upgrading in the future, to 4x4TB 3.5", 4x1TB 2.5", and 4x2TB 2.5". Also a nice little SSD cache for downloads to keep the disks sleeping if not needed immediately. For the boot drive, I repurposed an "old" dual USB drive. I had a one year old 8GB Kingston MicroDuo, but since I swapped to a phone with USB Type-C, it became obsolete. However it's very small. I plugged it into one of the USB2.0 ports under the PS/2 ports, so it does not take away external expansion possibilities. But you can probably use something like this or like this. The system boots from the USB drive every time you actually boot - this includes updates to DSM, system reboots, etc. Since it only loads ~15MB from the USB drive, it does not matter much if it's a USB2 or USB3 drive. However, some motherboards had issues with booting from USB3. When it goes to "sleep" it just goes into a low-power state, since a NAS doesn't really "sleep" per se. Best you can do is spinning down the disks after a certain time, and making sure the conservative governor is set (so CPU idles at its lowest frequencies instead of the stock "stick to highest freq" governor). The boot process is pretty simple though: - Boot system - BIOS/UEFI finds boot disk, loads GRUB from it - GRUB loads modules, and config - GRUB config is set ot a 1s timeout, that happens - GRUB loads the kernel zImage (3MB), initramdisk (7MB) and XPE ramdisk (2MB) - zImage mounts the initramdisk and XPE ramdisk as root - Syno scripts run, discover system, including if DSM is installed on the hard drives - If yes, they load the system from there (this is after the XPE ramdisk is done patching), if not, it falls back to install mode The way DSM works, the first time you "install" it, it initializes all disks in the machine. This initialization consists of creating a new partition table (GPT) on each disk, then creating a 3GB (2.7GiB) partition and creating a soft RAID1 volume out of these. This is then used as a boot device, mounted as / - basically, this is your system here. Yes, this literally means that DSM is on each and every disk in your system. So no, a faster boot disk won't make things faster, since a good majority of the system is loaded from all HDDs simultaneously.

The 3615 does not have the time bomb built into the DS3617xs images. It's like Synology expected us to use it for XPE loaders. Which makes sense, since it's their best tower NAS at the moment.

No, it is not possible to change the hardware "number". The models are tied to specific hardware, and all enterprise-level (so anything above the 4-5 drive SOHO models) dropped SHR support for some time now. As for the root user, I'd rather use the "sudo su -" command. It will give the same shell as you're in currently, with the same PS1, PATH, et cetera, but as a root user.

Out of this bunch, maybe the second one would be worth to buy, if it wasn't that expensive. For that price you can already grab an HP Gen8 MicroServer, which has a quite similar configuration, but you can add 4 3.5" full speed HDDs.

For the CPU, trust me, it's working fine. I'm using Plex to transcode 1080p content to two-three devices at the same time, and while that maxes it out in theory, all file copying, etc. works just fine. But pretty much with this config you can go with any Skylake or Kaby Lake CPU. I recommend the G4560 because it's practically an underclocked i3-7100, at half the price. It's slightly weaker than the one in the T20, yes, but it makes up by using considerably less power. You can check around with i3-7xxx and i5-7xxx CPUs but those will significantly raise the price. What I meant with that sentence about the drivers means that currently Jun's loader only includes the most widespread drivers (and as far as I checked, no WiFi ones). So yes, for WiFi you need to build your own, unfortunately (but I'm already working on a loader which is based off of Jun's, but with more drivers and some small stuff changed ). Ethernet SHOULD work on both. About that chassis - way too expensive for a 4-bay one. I'd suggest going for the Silverstone DS380, CS280B or CS01B-HS. These are all NAS-oriented cases, with hot-swap disk storage, just like the HP Gen8 microserver. There are some other manufacturers, but it's rare to have an mITX case with more than 2pcs of 3.5" space. Your best bet are either these, or one of the Bitfenix cases (they go around 60-80$, and you can probably find a better deal on Ebay or Craigslist).

Let me guess, you used the 3617xs image. Try using the 3615xs, it should fix things in theory.

No, I'm saying the G4560 is less powerful than the Xeon in the Dell T20 you mentioned. Single thread it is more powerful, but multi-core the Xeon beats it. But both CPUs beat the hell out of the Celeron C2538 that ships in the DS1815+! XPEnology can do pretty much the same a regular Syno device can. If the wireless chip is supported, it can use a bonded interface. Same applies for two or more wired connections (though the drivers for these tend to be there from the get-go, unlike with wifi stuff). For PSU, the models in this range usually come with a 20+4 mobo connector, a 4-pin CPU cable, a 6-pin PCI power one, and a bunch of Molex and SATA cables. Since you want to use 4 or more disks, I think you'll need all of those, sans the 6-pin PCIe power cable, which you can just tuck away. The rest will be used any way

I'm not sure - I don't use encryption, and I don't see how it would benefit home use at all. Unless you store some very sensitive data. ECC is good for servers where lots of data is in RAM. But since it's home use, no need for it. That case, however, is an overkill in my opinion. It can house a full mATX board... There are some mITX cases with a lot smaller footprint, that can hold up to 8 disks - look around at Silverstone's cases, a bit pricier but they usually even have a SATA backplane, so less cabling! You can also go with Bitfenix cases, the Colossus is perfect (5+1 internal 3.5" HDDs, and with a 5.25" to 4x 2.5", you can add 4 more 2.5" disks) for this role. Synology's DSM is simply Linux, with some small modifications, and a web UI. Nothing more. It can use all four threads no matter what. And yes, the G4560 is a bit lower power than the linked Xeon, but it also eats less power (I'm measuring around 25W with 2x 2.5" 1TB disks and the motherboard!), and is in general better with power usage. For motherboard, well, prices are going up a bit. You can find the B250I PRO (not the gaming version!) for around 80$. Wifi can come handy, as a secondary network connection (syno can bind the networks together and use both to provide even better bandwidth). That RAM choice is good though. And for PSU... Go for a bigger brand, and you shouldn't care much about modularity. It's a NAS, you put it together once, then use it as-is. Especially if you choose a case that has a SATA backplane. 300-350W is more than enough, my config is yet to go over 150W with 6 disks in total.

For 400$ that's a pretty low-end config. The only reason why you should go with that, or a Gen8, is because it's pre-built and ready to use. Though the HP has that really awesome hotswap 3.5" grid, so... You can use a PCIe SATA/RAID card, which can add up to 8 more devices, so no, there's no need for 6 or more SATA ports onboard. Actually, the amount of mITX boards that have 6 or more SATA is pretty low. My usage seems similar to yours. Honestly, I don't think you need SSD cache. But even if you do, I think a single SSD will do, especially if you buy a high-speed one and use the motherboard's M.2 NVMe port on the back. ECC RAM is completely unnecessary for home use. For one, you're keeping minimal data in RAM, so corruption won't effect you much (if you used FreeNAS with ZFS, that would be another case...). For two, it's more expensive. Synology uses a USB drive to boot, yes. That drive contains the bootloader, kernel, and some modules. The rest of the system is installed on ALL disks (basically when you install Synology DSM on any hardware, or in other word, "initialize" a disk, it creates a small RAID1 partition spanning all disks, which gets extended automatically when you add a new disk. It takes up roughly 5GB from each disk at max). Since the loader is only used for booting, you won't even need a large one, or a USB3 drive.

My NAS (see in my signature) cost me ~200$, including all parts. Though it is true that I bought the PSU and case used. The HW itself is a lot stronger than the Microserver, and possibly outdoes the T20 (you did not say which config it was exactly). You can go a bit higher and get an i3-7100, or a 6200, and still be under 300$ in total.

You're probably better off with a custom built config. You can finetune it better, plus it's more flexible. Can you list your requirements regarding: - Processing power - Memory-heavy applications - Storage (how many disks, mainly) - Space restrictions - Network interface requirements

Interesting. Faked serial and MAC, yet Docker works just fine (would be funny if it didn't, since, apart from file sharing and proxying, I'm using it for ALL my services, including Plex, Sonarr, Deluge, whatnot). Please stop spreading bullshit based on your anecdotal evidence. Docker, btw, is still open source, and free to use for home solutions, and I doubt many use it in enterprise environments.

You do realize that there's a difference between "tell me all you know about how the loader works, step by step", and StackOverflow, right? If he had any specific questions, I'd have answered them. Maybe in private, but I'd definitely answer. However he had no specific question, he was all like "tell me everything". I won't be spoon-feeding anyone with information.

It' was my mistake or the script try to compile modprobe? That's one of the missing bits.

Ah sorry. But my statement still applies. Because of the local courts, they can s*** on GPL.

The scripts miss the interesting bits Well, there ARE references to them, but the interesting bits and pieces (patcher, etc.) are all excluded. Look better, it miss also another piece Did you check scripts set? i have some questions about, due to my lack i don't understand how it works the part where i can run menuconfig It misses a binary file, and some manual edits, both of which results are directly in the loader images themselves. Trust me, I spent the past week looking at how this thing works

The scripts miss the interesting bits Well, there ARE references to them, but the interesting bits and pieces (patcher, etc.) are all excluded.

I would be very happy at that price. I suspect at that level, there would be a risk of substantial cannibalisation of their hardware business but let's see what actually happens. Doubt it. The 30/50$ would be for home use, where devices that are worth around 100-150$ go for 250-300$, and that already includes all the services. Enterprise, I suppose, will get a lot higher pricing (since it's used for making money), and a per-user system. I also guess that the home systems will be limited to 3-5 users.